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Dannotary
California
265 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2012 : 8:37:16 PM
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| Reporting the BAR assoc wont do anything. Lawyers never go after one another the BAR is a joke. Would like to see him have a misdemeanor for violation of "soliciting a notary to do an illegal act " I think its code 8205 in Ca. |
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2011 : 7:05:35 PM
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I know I'm late answering this, but it was already certified by the SOS and they still rejected it wanting additional wording.
quote:
Originally posted by edelske
Old timers wil recall the Hebrew National ad, boasting about the purity of Kosher Hot Dogs - "We report to a higher authority".
With that said, I would have taken a different approach. International notarization acceptance is IMHO best assured by adding an Apostille (for Hague countries) or a "Certification" - both available from your Secretary of State.
It is the function of these "add ons" to facilitate the internationaal acceptance of documents notarized in one country, but destined for use in another.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 06:43:45 AM
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Old timers wil recall the Hebrew National ad, boasting about the purity of Kosher Hot Dogs - "We report to a higher authority".
With that said, I would have taken a different approach. International notarization acceptance is IMHO best assured by adding an Apostille (for Hague countries) or a "Certification" - both available from your Secretary of State.
It is the function of these "add ons" to facilitate the internationaal acceptance of documents notarized in one country, but destined for use in another.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
Edited by - edelske on 12/10/2011 06:46:50 AM |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
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crtowles
California
553 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2011 : 03:46:19 AM
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Never in all my years as a notary have I been asked to add words to a document. However, if asked I would promptly and without hesitation say no as it is not part of my responsibility as a notary public. Our job is to verify identity, signature and give oaths. So I stick to what is required of me.
What is more interesting to me is the presentation of documents that have foreign notarial wording....where does it say in the handbook that I CANNOT use the wording??? |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 9:12:08 PM
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This is from the California notary handbook
A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or jurisdiction of the United States on documents to be filed in that other state or jurisdiction, provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.
So, you can NOT use Acknowledgment wording from other countries, however attaching a note below the certicate section where the notary makes a statement, and then states that they are a notary public is something that is NOT covered in the California notary handbook. It is not prescribed, but doesn't seem to be illegal unless you are making false statements, or perhaps impersonating a notary act that doesn't exist.
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 9:03:42 PM
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This is one of the most interesting forum posts of the year. I also have been asked to add notes to notarized documents.
I am not sure if it is ILLEGAL to add another sentence, sign it, and state you are a notary public. It doesn't make it an official notary act, just because you ARE a notary and you SIGN a statement that also notes that you are a notary public. It just means that you are a credible person signing a statement that you know to be true.
I have signed statements saying that I witnessed a document being photocopied, and that I was a notary public.
California also allows (or used to, I am out of date here) out of state wording to be used providing it is not too substantially different. You can not RECORD out of state wording here for deeds, but you can / or used to able to notarize with it.
So, I am not convinced that you were asked to break the law. It seems more like an unusual request than an illegal request. Notarizing someone who wasn't there, or backdating are typical illegal acts you should never do.
What was the mystery sentence you were asked to add anyway? Was it fraudulent?
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2011 : 07:28:54 AM
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. . .their convenience to please the COO.
It was interesting my recent experience with an attorney in New York on behalf of an investment firm in San Francisco I had steady business from since late September. I was made their primary mobile notary after I performed a loan signing for one of their top people at their property.
Around Thanksgiving I got a call from their firm's paralegal wanting to know if I would take a 3-way conference call from their attorney in New York. It seems the Taiwan consulate was having a problem with the California State wording that denoted a document was signed in my presence. Was this really any of my responsibility to follow-up on my lawful notarization? No, not really but I took the call anyway because the firm gave me steady business each week.
First let me confirm that Taiwan is a non-Hague convention country that the California SOS says causes problems being difficult in its unlawful demands that notaries add additional verbiage to their notarizations in the capacity of notary publics.
We he called, the attorney was panicked and began to assert his opinion that the Taiwan consulate must do hundreds of these notraizations each day and that I must have done something to cause the Power of Attorney document not to be accepted. I explained that wasn't true. From there things only got worse. The attorney agreed the consulate request was redundant I add similar verbiage of what was already in the California Jurat "subscribed and sworn before me". Regardless, he wanted me to type in a sentence and sign it on the document by PDF.
I called around after the call to the CA SOS, and various other credible sources. I was told I could only add a sentence to the document as an individual, not as a notarial act. I told the attorney what I could lawfully do and he said fine, send it over. However, after I sent it over, the attorney sent it back to me by email stating "this isn't enough, you have to put you're a notary public on the statement." I spoke again with the attorney telling him I had already told him I couldn't do that. He was so pressuring me that I had to tell him "no" and he seemed dumbfounded I refused to cooperate with his request.
I spoke with the CA SOS who advised me to forward the Gov't Code to the Taiwan consulate as the only solution. The attorney then agreed to do this. I never heard from the attorney or this investment firm the past three weeks so I contacted the paralegal involved who wrote that Taiwan had processed the document and didn't give any explanation for why they had delayed it over the Jurat wording.
I had spent significant time with this attorney dealing with his issues, etc and guess what? This investment firm hasn't used my services since.
What's the moral of the story? Don't get involved when attorneys try to pressure you to help them do their jobs. This attorney should have never contacted me since I provided a lawful notarization. I can't help it if the Taiwan consulate's demands are unlawful, that's not my problem. Because I allowed myself to get embroiled in this attorney's demands and frustrations, I lost this client.
So when an attorney ever calls you over a problem he's having, simply tell him or her to refer the Gov't code to the problem entity. That is all that can really be done. Don't allow them to blame you for doing your job. Attorneys are master manipulators looking for a scapegoat for their failure to please the COO of their firm. This attorney made me the fall person for his inadequate means of addressing the issue.
I have it all in his own writing this attorney attempted to get me to violate the law to suit his needs to please his boss who needed a quick resolution to a Power of Attorney document. I have his rejecting my initial offer, to request me to perform an unlawful notarial act, and the evidence the firm has discontinued my services since. I'm really furious at this outcome of an attorney interefering in my good relationship with this firm. I plan on reporting him to the New York State Bar and the California SOS. 
2011 CA Notary Public Handbook (pg 36)
http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-handbook-2011.pdf
ยง 8225. Improper notarial acts, solicitation, coercion or influence of performance;
misdemeanor
(a) Any person who solicits, coerces, or in any manner influences a notary public to perform an improper notarial act knowing that act to be an improper notarial act, including any act required of a notary public under Section 8206, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Notwithstanding any other limitation of time described in Section 802 of the Penal Code, or any other provision of law, prosecution for a violation of this offense shall be commenced within four years after discovery of the commission of the offense, or within four years after the completion of the offense, whichever is later.
(c) The penalty provided by this section is not an exclusive remedy, and does not affect any other relief or remedy provided by law.
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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When Attorneys Ask Notaries to Break The Law. . .
