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 Dear Signing Agents,
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
 Posted - 12/20/2010 : 1:48:57 PM
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I really believe that the notaries who post on forums have no conception of FAIRNESS. Sure its okay if everyone respectfully disagrees with me. Honestly, we publish endless information to PROTECT notaries from bad signing companies who have a reputation for non-payment. Notaries think this is okay. But, our system for protecting browsers from notaries who have done something significantly wrong is not okay. This is a double standard.
I don't want notaries getting cheated, and I don't want borrowers to have their loans ruined. Try to see things from an even handed point of view.
If everyone on 123notary was a doc-jacker, and word got out, then no knowledgeable browser would ever come here again... so it DOES effect my reputation, especially with the Title folks who are the ones who pay the fastest and pay the most. They can use whomever they want. They have choices.
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2010 : 09:50:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by marwells
I agree with this & still cannot comprehend Jeremy taking this personally & thinking it involves his reputation. This is an advertising site, he is not responsible for the conduct of the notaries who advertise here. Disputes of any sort are between the notary & the hiring party. While we often "vent" on the forums about issues we have, it's unprofessional on anyone's part to get involved in a disagreement, other than offering opinions.
You just said a mouthful!! ;-)
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2010 : 07:54:32 AM
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On the 5th of December @ 3:09 PM, Jeremy made the following statement:quote:
If you disagree with 123notary or any of our staff members about anything, please take it up with us PRIVATELY if you feel your remarks would effect our reputation. If any member writes something that compromises our reputation in any way, I will strongly consider permanently removing that member from our social networks.
I think the same should hold true if notaries have issues with signing services, title companies or lenders. It doesn't make any difference who the parties are, the conversations, and perceptions, should be kept private.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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marwells
Virginia
26 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2010 : 05:42:01 AM
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I agree with this & still cannot comprehend Jeremy taking this personally & thinking it involves his reputation. This is an advertising site, he is not responsible for the conduct of the notaries who advertise here. Disputes of any sort are between the notary & the hiring party. While we often "vent" on the forums about issues we have, it's unprofessional on anyone's part to get involved in a disagreement, other than offering opinions.
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dawn
Pennsylvania
34 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2010 : 05:31:46 AM
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Let me start this by saying, that I am NOT a regular poster anywhere, but I do follow all the forums where I have a listing and most times my opinion has already been expressed by someone else.
In real life, there are times when the notary is unavailable after a signing. If I know that I am going out of town or will be unavailable after a signing, I let the hiring entity know that. However, there are emergencies that occur. Even in this world of technology there can be times when a notary doesn't get a message, email, etc. in a timely manner. And I am a technology junkie, but there have been times when a missed call voice mail doesn't show up for hours or even a day or two, e-mail servers go down, etc.
To the best of my knowledge, there has not been a complaint filed against me, but if there were, it would be my hope that the client would work with me directly and not through a mediator. I have had problems with companies that have found me here as well as other avenues where I advertise my services, but I DO NOT get the website administration involved with my collection attempts, etc. After all, as I saw posted, there are always three sides to a story and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
This is my .02 and personal opinion in this matter. I shall go back to lurking..... |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 11:41:40 PM
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Hi Linda,
If 123notary has a systems for all notaries on the site. Unfortunately, I can't change policy for those who disagree with our policies no matter how logical their points are. In your particular case, you have no negative reviews at all. Only half a percent of notaries listed with us have negative reviews. The type of notaries who get reviews are troublemakers, and you are NOT a troublemaker.... which is probably why you have no negative reviews. Any notary can ask their best clients to write a positive review, and that could help their market share a little bit, and I recommend it.
I respect your point of view and agree to a certain agree with you. Its just that our browsers are the bread and butter of myself, Carmen, and 6000 notaries on board, so I can't afford to have a few bad apples spoil things for the rest of us.
Another point is that half of the notaries who get a review, get one because they DON'T settle the problem with the client. They refuse to help solve the problem generally by being non-responsive. You are very responsive, but the notaries who cause trouble are often not. Please understand that if all notaries were like you, we wouldn't NEED a review system in the first place. |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 7:34:58 PM
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Jeremy..
I've made my position on this painfully clear - I want the companies to deal directly with ME regarding me, my business or my services. I pay you to provide me with a venue to advertise my services, and that's all. Why they'd come to you in the first place to settle differences between myself and the company is beyond me, unless it's related to this notary review system you've implemented. And if that's the case, and it's causing you to be "in the middle" then I say get rid of it. And I'd just like to point out that, if you recall, your notaries, your bread and butter, your paying listers, were against this review system from the get-go...
As to the rest of the members, that's up to them. And I welcome their opinions and input here.
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
Edited by - LindaH on 12/17/2010 7:41:48 PM |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 7:23:54 PM
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Hi Linda,
Carmen and I talked about your point of view in depth an hour ago. I've decided that maybe I should let notaries choose if they want me to moderate for them or not.
(1) Why am I getting involved? Its to protect notaries from accusations due to problems miscommunications that were the lender / signing agent's fault -- and to protect the notaries false accusations from maniacs.
(2) Why have a review system in the first place? To protect our browsers from notaries who do no shows, steal documents, last minute cancellations, or other problems that can ruin a loan or cause someone to lose their rate or pull their hair out, etc. Every notary makes a mistake from time to time, but its the ones who make it a regular business to cause grief to our browsers that I am concerned about. Our browsers are our bread and butter, and if we alienate them, then none of us will have work and will be out of business!
(3) MAYBE I should offer notaries the right to choose if they want me to be their moderator, or if they want to rebut complaints themselves. Do you like this?
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 4:25:47 PM
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Okay...all I'm going to say right at this moment is:
1. To be clear, my postings in this thread are related and in response to your initial post wherein you stated "If a notary becomes unresponsive after a signing and the lender gets frustrated trying to reach them, then the complaint eventually comes to us"
2. I still don't understand why you're mediating anything in the first place. This may be one of those things we're just going to agree to seriously disagree on because I just don't get it.
3. The statement about the "LOUISIANA notary" - well, I don't think that has any place here - no need to air it out here...that's between you two - See?? That's called "not getting in the middle" - because it's not my business.
Like I said - I can appreciate you wanting to have a high quality listing site...but there's authority you have, there's authority you DON'T have and also a line that shouldn't be crossed.
MHO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
Edited by - LindaH on 12/17/2010 4:27:53 PM |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 3:38:37 PM
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Hi Linda,
Your opinion is valid. However, mine is too. This is a matter of management style. I have spent a lot of time in India where there is no law and order and people get hurt all the time. Buses run people off the road into the ditch, women get unwanted physical contact from men, churches and temples make unbearable non-stop noise with their loudspeakers night and day. The police and authorities shrug their shoulders and do the minimum. This is why I like America and Singapore where there is organization and order. Singapore is a bit excessive, but you are safe there and the people are friendly and the authorities don't harrass innocent people.
On my site, I want good notaries who respect their clients and do their best. Mistakes and arguments happen, and I accept that, but notaries who are out of control need to be moderated somehow.
The notary in LOUISIANA who is making a stink on NR had a very serious prior issue a year ago where she failed in her obligations to a client and got a serious complaint. She was extremely rude to both myself and Carmen when we talked to her about it. And a week ago she got another very serious complaint. She is making a career of slandering us when she is the one who caused any problems between herself and clients or with us.
Its my PREFERENCE to have organization and order, justice and decency. So, I work towards these goals. Its okay if you have different preferences.
AUTHORIZATION?
I am neither authorized nor unauthorized to mediate, and notaries do not have to agree to cooperate with communicating with me for mediation. America has freedom of speech and I exercise mine. There is no legal jurisdiction for who is authorized to communicate with another person. However, if they get a complaint and refuse to communicate with me, I can not let them off the hook. If there were no mediation, then I would have to publish all complaints against notaries without scrutinizing them. I like to give notaries the benefit of the doubt, and the majority of complaints are discarded or kept private.
I respect Linda's point that she doesn't LIKE the idea that I butt into other people's business, but if those others are on my site, then I feel it is my business. Defining what is or isn't somebody's business is a topic that libertarians have been debating for years and there is no right point of view here.
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 06:41:09 AM
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"Why would a company complain directly to me? Maybe I'm the only one who will listen and can actually do something."
Hogwash..trust me - these companies can speak up and fend for themselves - and besides, what can you do? You have NO control over our business, our work product or our business relationships - that's on us and is our responsibility. Again, you're injecting yourself into the middle of something you have no business in. If companies honestly believe the above statement, then that's because you've represented that to them on our behalf - and I, for one, never authorized you to do that. I guarantee my own work and if I make a mistake it's dealt with directly with the company and corrected on MY dime.
I can appreciate you wanting to raise the bar as far as quality notaries being listed, but there are limits on your ability to accomplish that. I seem to recall someone advising you that a notary listed on your site was, in fact, NOT a notary - your response was you can't check up on all the people listed to make sure they're really notaries. Well, if you can't even ensure that the "notaries" listed on YOUR notary website are really commissioned notaries, how in the world can you possibly expect to control the quality of our work - bottom line is you can't and it's not your business to do so.
I like my listing here - my best clients found me here...but I will publicly say right now that you are not my authorized representative nor are you my business manager, and any company that I work with that has a problem with me or my work should come directly to me to resolve the issue as you are not authorized to speak on my behalf, nor are you authorized to mediate any disagreements that company and I may have.
Respectfully (but adamantly) submitted.
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 10:55:36 PM
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Everybody is making good points here. We can not control any notaries on our site, nor do we try to. If a notary does something slightly wrong or is slightly rude, we will not publish a review like that since it causes a big headache. However, if a notary does something seriously damaging to the client, we take a responsibility to look into it and warn the public if I think the notary really did something wrong.
Very few accusations are false, but many are "complicated" where both sides did something wrong and the situation gets complicated. If I'm not 95% sure (there is no 100% since I'm here and they are somewhere else) that the notary really did something seriously wrong, then I don't want to publish a review. I usually make the first review "private" for my personal files only -- in any case.
Why would a company complain directly to me? Maybe I'm the only one who will listen and can actually do something.
Once again, if 123notary has wonderful notaries, then people will enjoy making us their main site for looking for notaries. If they wind up with disaster stories, then they will be likely to use the competition. Its partly a move to "improve" the community as a whole, and partly a necessary business decision to have reviews. It comes with side effects though, and that is why I'm extremely careful.
We have had only two cases where I refused to list someone due to complaints. Those individuals had multiple complaints from different individuals, and it looked like they made it a regular practice to ruin people's loans through neglegence of some sort. The other 5998 notaries on the site are okay and only a few dozen of them have any type of public or private complaint on file.
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 10:15:58 PM
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I applaud your instinct to be the best and wanting to associate with the best. Still, you don't really have that kind of control over the notaries using your site. I think there are many fine Notaries on 123 and I'm sure there are also some who should look for other work.
I don't see how you can really control that...
I remember complaining about individuals who were abusive on the forum and you couldn't control that (and it's YOUR forum). How in the world could you expect to hold back the tide of good/bad notaries listed here?...it's just not possible...
...and YOU are certainly not to blame if a notary does not share your passion for excellence.
Just one opinion.
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote
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Edited by - Shannon on 12/16/2010 10:18:06 PM |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 3:45:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
... or else a complaint will come to me personally about the notary.
Call me naive, but why would a company complain to you personally about a notary? Just because the Acme Title Company found a notary signing agent using your directory, doesn't mean they will complain to you about an issue they have with a particular notary. Oh, maybe some signing services or 'pop-up' title companies may tell you that they were not pleased with a signing agent they found in your directory, but that's where your involvement ends. If you no longer wish to allow the signing agent to be listed, that's your prerogative, and, imo, your only option. Any further intervention into the issue that's between the ss, title company or whomever, and the notary signing agent, is between them, not you. It certainly may not be looked upon favorably by the signing agent or the hiring agency. Your role is to maintain a directory of agents, nothing more, nothing less. As I said, your options are limited to removing the agents at your discretion.
As you probably know, I too have a "list" of notaries on my website that is frequently searched by someone looking for a notary. In the 10+ years I've had the "list", I've never had anyone complain to me about the performance or quality of work of anyone on the list. And I have never removed anyone from that list because of some issue.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 2:30:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
To answer Linda's point.... I am not responsible for the behavior of our notaries. Linda is correct here. However, my reputation as someone who runs a directory depends on how well the notaries perform. If we have only the best notaries in town on 123notary, then people will have faith in our directory. If we consistantly have non-responsive and difficult notaries on board, then people will lose faith in our product. Its not a legal responsibility for us, its a quality control responsibility.
IMO if a company hires a notary who turns out to be non-responsive or difficult, it is the company's responsibility to use their common sense and just don't use the notary again. It's an issue that is between the notary and the company and I don't feel you should be in the middle.
Now, if this is related to your review section where you try to only have truthful reviews, and have decided to investigate all issues to be sure the reviews are fair to all, IMO remove that feature. You have put yourself in the middle of something in which you don't belong. You run a directory - that's it. You are not responsible for my work product - I am - and any issues about my work product should be directed to me alone.
If I have a problem with a company who found me here, Jeremy, (and many many do) I would NOT consider you responsible for that nor would I complaint to YOU about the company or think it's your responsibility to straighten it out. I'll just either air my problems out directly with the company and try to work it out with them or, as is my prerogative, I won't work for them again...period.
MHO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 2:13:11 PM
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To answer Linda's point.... I am not responsible for the behavior of our notaries. Linda is correct here. However, my reputation as someone who runs a directory depends on how well the notaries perform. If we have only the best notaries in town on 123notary, then people will have faith in our directory. If we consistantly have non-responsive and difficult notaries on board, then people will lose faith in our product. Its not a legal responsibility for us, its a quality control responsibility.
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 2:10:26 PM
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My apologies. When I said LENDER, I was thinking: lender, signing company, title company, or whomever hired you. My point is that you need to follow up no matter what, or else a complaint will come to me personally about the notary.
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2010 : 10:19:12 AM
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While I stand behind my work and will always do what is needed to complete it and satisfy a client, a signing is completed when I drop off the docs (To FEDEX, To the Escrow Office or to the overnight drop-slot at the office where I was hired). My invoice terms are "Due and payable upon receipt" (never upon funding or some other such nonsense I see signing services try to pull).
It is always good practice to note any areas of concern to the hiring entity. But, my responsibility is to THAT entity, not anyone else. I'm available by phone all the time so I don't really see how a 48 hr window has much to do with anything I do...some escrow officers have called with a question a week or more after a signing. I usually struggle to answer specific questions because by then I've done 15-20 other signings. I refer to my detailed and fully completed journal in those instances.
In a situation where I complete a signing on a Friday and am leaving on a vacation across the country on Saturday, I obviously won't be "available"...but this would not stop my vacation OR stop me from taking that Friday signing.
There are always two sides to a story. Lenders may hold the purse strings to an overall deal, but, they don't have much to do or say about my actual signing. As with all clients, they will either accept the work or they will not. Trying to second guess someone in a cubicle at some distant lenders office seems like a bit of wasted time.
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote
Like me on Facebook:
http://goo.gl/WWpGP |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2010 : 06:26:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
Believe it or not, but many notaries don't understand this. When you are done with a signing, you always have to let the lender know how the signing went. They need to know if everything got signed, if there were questions, etc.
Another bigger issue is that notaries need to be available by phone up to 48 hours after the signing. If anything went wrong with the signing, the notary needs to be available to help pick up the pieces. More times than not, whatever went wrong was an error on the part of the lender, clerical error, or communication error between the lender and the borrowers. But, if the lender can't reach the notary, and the notary doesn't return calls, that is trouble.
If a notary becomes unresponsive after a signing and the lender gets frustrated trying to reach them, then the complaint eventually comes to us.
The main issue is to be available, return emails, and try to cooperate regardless of who's fault a screw up is. Even if you are on vacation or out of town, if you want to still be a signer when you come back, please learn to be there. Just like the Seinfeld episode where they say, "I just want you to know that... I'm HERE for you!".
I disagree here also - to a point; yes we must keep our hiring party informed as to status, but our duty to be available ends once the signing is complete, package is dropped and any "completion reports" (so to speak) are submitted.
As to this..."If a notary becomes unresponsive after a signing and the lender gets frustrated trying to reach them, then the complaint eventually comes to us.".....we are independent contractors - Jeremy, you should be making it clear to any companies you deal with that you have NO responsibility for us and you should not be accepting any complaints about us - the companies should be dealing directly with us about any problems/complaints. I, honestly, feel this is an over-reach of your perceived authority.
I do agree we should be *willing* to help in any way we can to fix errors and make a file "fundable" - but availability is a fluid, ever-changing issue since we are all running a business and have other clients' needs to consider - companies needs to realize that fact.
MHO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2010 : 04:59:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
Believe it or not, but many notaries don't understand this. When you are done with a signing, you always have to let the lender know how the signing went. They need to know if everything got signed, if there were questions, etc.
I disagree. I submit that we must let the ones who hire us know that the signing is complete. That is our obligation when we accept the assignment. Letting the lender know is their (the ones who hired us) responsibility but may be an additional request and needs to be noted on the confirmation or notary instructions. Many times we, as signing agents, don't even get contact information for the lender. Assuming that the LO is the same person that is shown on the 1003 (if there at all) is often not the case.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 10:43:52 PM
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Believe it or not, but many notaries don't understand this. When you are done with a signing, you always have to let the lender or signing company or whomever hired you know how the signing went. They need to know if everything got signed, if there were questions, etc.
Another bigger issue is that notaries need to be available by phone up to 48 hours after the signing. If anything went wrong with the signing, the notary needs to be available to help pick up the pieces. More times than not, whatever went wrong was an error on the part of the lender, clerical error, or communication error between the lender and the borrowers. But, if the lender can't reach the notary, and the notary doesn't return calls, that is trouble.
If a notary becomes unresponsive after a signing and the lender gets frustrated trying to reach them, then the complaint eventually comes to us.
The main issue is to be available, return emails, and try to cooperate regardless of who's fault a screw up is. Even if you are on vacation or out of town, if you want to still be a signer when you come back, please learn to be there. Just like the Seinfeld episode where they say, "I just want you to know that... I'm HERE for you!".
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Follow up and availability by phone AFTER the fact
