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Notary007
60 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2011 : 11:43:57 AM
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I post a Fee Schedule and a Document Services Agreement on my website. My website Terms and Conditions state that if you use my website or hire my company, you have read and agree to my Fee Schedule and Document Services Agreement.
When accepting a job or sending an invoice, I state that it is subject to the Fee Schedule and Document Services Agreement posted on my website. The agreement helps to clarify and limit my services and liability and includes protective language to help discourage or deal with unethical or dishonest parties.
But an ounce of prevention in screening hiring companies to avoid slow pay/no pay makes great sense, rather than spending time and energy doing collections. |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2011 : 4:33:42 PM
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Contracts phooey!
What ever happened to "The Golden Rule".
In case your are too young to have heard of it"
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Some "wags" have been known to add to the end "but do it first"!
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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16608
Texas
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 1:11:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LindaH
IMO & IME, I just don't see any hiring entity, especially a very busy title company, taking the time to read all this, run it by legal and sign and return it in time to get the closing done - what I see is them receiving this, scanning it quickly and drafting their e-mail.."please disregard, this closing has been canceled" - they just don't have the time or the personnel to deal with this stuff, especially each and every time they call you to schedule something (since you stated the agreement pertains to the current file only).
I discuss terms on the initial call and review the confirmation to determine all terms are included - done. The confirmation is the company's agreement to pay and that's good enough for me - and for any court of law IMO.
Maybe this works for you and if so, congrats on that. I'm of the firm opinion that had I presented this to any of the companies I've worked with in the last 4 years, I'd have been out of business.
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
[/quote]We are a group of notaries fed up with these companies not paying us. We have formed Notaries United. We have been able to collect 99% of the outstanding invoices we have gone after, and in about 24 hours of making contact with the signing company. If you would like us to help you, contact us at notaries.united@onebox.com We do not charge for our service. We are very busy and should get back with you within 10 hours. Hope this helps.
Binky |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 02:58:29 AM
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IMO & IME, I just don't see any hiring entity, especially a very busy title company, taking the time to read all this, run it by legal and sign and return it in time to get the closing done - what I see is them receiving this, scanning it quickly and drafting their e-mail.."please disregard, this closing has been canceled" - they just don't have the time or the personnel to deal with this stuff, especially each and every time they call you to schedule something (since you stated the agreement pertains to the current file only).
I discuss terms on the initial call and review the confirmation to determine all terms are included - done. The confirmation is the company's agreement to pay and that's good enough for me - and for any court of law IMO.
Maybe this works for you and if so, congrats on that. I'm of the firm opinion that had I presented this to any of the companies I've worked with in the last 4 years, I'd have been out of business.
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 02:09:21 AM
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Do I understand this correctly - you're proclaiming the benefits of using a contract (as exampled by your own) as an independently contracted NSA, but you have multiple full-time & part-time employees doing signings.
It's an established business protocol that a Signing Service would contract with vendors. It is not an established protocol that an independent NSA would.
Perhaps one of the many NSA's here will follow your suggestion and begin asking for this contract to be signed, and let us know how it went? Has anyone else used this protocol, and would you mind letting us know your experience? |
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mtomlinson
Kansas
23 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 2:11:08 PM
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The original question was posted by John as
"Does anyone have a good notary signing agent contract that they are willing to share with me?"
So I decided to share the contract I use with the TC's and SS's. The question to which all of you evidently responded to was regarding IC agreemnets which are for the protection of the TC's and SS's and also used for purpose of book-keeping and taxes. All of you exceot jeremy. he had the right idea... A contract for the notary which I belive was the topic.
A Notary Signing Agent Contract would address the job description, assignment terms and payment due the notary.
You can see my agreemnt (well actually you can't because the underlined portions and do not transfer very well to the format on the posting ) but the method of documnt delivery, method of document return, payment due date and dollar amount are the variables in the equation. I have no issue with a company who wants to pay me in 15/30/45/or 60+ days. I don't really care. I just want to know what the date we agree upon is and I expect payment at or prior to that date. i will fill in the blank according to the rate agreed on the phone. I spent years in the mortgage industry as a Sr. Loan Officer and we were paid 45-60 days out form closing so the delay on the pay doesn't bother me. As you said, I'm not going to try and "Go against the machine."
What I am curious about is the NSA's on here who DO have an issue collecting on monies due them for completed jobs. It's great you don't have an issue. Nor do I. But evidently some out there do.
I generally work with title companies and I have 5 full-time notaries and three part-timers who rely upon me to keep them busy and put the food on their table. I operate a business and as such I am a professional and only work with other professionals. You can bet there is a contract between the mortgage broker and the appraisal company and the appraisal companies get paid. Correct? You know the mortgage broker and the title companies have their terms spelled out on paper and you know the title companies get ther money. Even you said in one of your posts on here that the title companies and the signing services have an agreement on paper. Why should the notary, who is not listed on the HUD by name (which puts them outside the "regulatory box" on being guaranteed payment at closing)not take steps to protect themselves. It is good business sense and shows common sense...which is required if you are going to survive and excell in business.
As I stated in my original post, very few, if any, of the the companies that call me have an issue signing the agreement. Yesterday, I received calls from two different compnaies I have never worked with before. They scheduled 3 closing between them, initially. Both then called back and added another closing for 5 total between the two companies. They didn't even think twice about signig the agreement. In fact they called back so they could sign more copies!!! Signed agreements are the way companies do business in America if you are extending terms for payment. It is standadrd practice in every industry in the nation. Why should the notary signing agents have a lower standard. I guess the companies I work with appreciate knowing they are working with a professional, organized business-person. You referenced the point that the employee doesn't have the authority to obligate the business to the agreement. I agree. That's why on my agreement on the signature lines (not posted because the lines don't transfer) the agreement also states By signing above, I am agreeing that I
am an authorized representative of the First Party and as such I am allowed to obligate the First Party to this agreement.
it is interesting though that you feel the individual calling you and scheduling the appointment doesn't have the authority to obligate their business to a debt since that is what they are doing initially by placing the order with you. I'll have to think in that one.
The companies who we sign for daily send the agreements over before they even place the order. They have them saved on their suytems and I don't even have to ask for them anymore. They fill them out and send them to me. I'm not sure why you feel I would be passing up business. As I said in the original post, "Rarely have I had issues with them signing the agreement and if they don't sign??? Why wouldn't they??? Probably because they have no intention of paying in the first place. So no loss there." I have never had an issue with non-payment. I don't expect I will either.
The thread is related to getting paid. I was providing the NSA's with an option they can use...if they wish. It works for me and I'm glad you don't have to use it. I will continue to use it and hopefully next year I will have 8 or 9 full-time notaries and 4 or 5 part-timers. More than likely the additional staff will be the people who couldn't operate a business as a notary and they ended up going under from unpaid invoices.
Michael D. Tomlinson |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 4:26:48 PM
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I would find it very, very difficult to believe that many - if any - title co's or even SS's would spend the time to examine such a contract, let alone return signed. My reason for this opinion is that schedulers working as employees wouldn't have the authority, time or legal expertise to examine it AND make a binding decision on behalf of their employer. Add to that the fact that you're probably one in a thousand (or more) who would present them with the task - my guess is they'd logically just move on.
All this to solve a 'problem' that I have just never experienced in the first place (pymt issues). If you look at the odds - the odds of a carefully selected client NOT paying you is (I project, IMO)far, far lower than the odds of a potentially new/viable client skipping past you as a result of this contract.
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mtomlinson
Kansas
23 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 12:12:53 PM
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You all are kidding me. In all the posts I have read on this topic the contract discussed was the contract from the SS or the TC. What about our contract? We will sign an independent contractor agreement designed to protect the SS or the TC but rarely does that agreement reference what we are concerned about. Getting paid.
I think if you look at the original question he was wanting examples more along the lines of the agreement I use for every company, every assignment, every time. If they don't want to sign then they dont get the job completed. Well, at least not by me. If you all look over your IC agreements they rarely if ever reference monies due to the notary and when you will be paid. That is usually sent as a seperate email or a verbal agreement. Where is your proof that the TC or SS owes you anything other than a printout of an email?
As stated above, every assignment I accept hears, "Yes, I will accept your terms. I will put that in writing, send you my payment agreement.You need to send a signed copy back with the order. Once I receive the order and the signed agreement consider the order accepted and completed. What is your email address and physical address, sis or ma'am?"
I have the form saved as a template on my computer and on my Blackberry as an editable document. I fill in the company name and their address, enter their email address and press send. Rarely have I had issues with them signing the agreement and if they don't sign??? Why wouldn't they??? Probably because they have no intention of paying in the first place so no loss there.
Below is a copy of my agreement. If you wish you can email me I will will send it to you in doc or docx format. Some of the features are not tranferrable to this format.
AGREEMENT TO PAY FOR SERVICES
1. This Agreement is being made between ( INSERT NAME ), hereinafter referred to as the First Party or First Party’s which is a business and operates at( INSERT ADDRESS) and Mid-States Notary Services hereinafter referred to as Mid-States which operates a business at 432 West Acorn Street, Gardner, Ks 66030 . Mid-States is a mobile notary company who is acting as an independent contractor and has been retained by the First Party to receive documents, witness signatures, notarize documents and return said documents to the First Party or individuals other than the First Party who have been designated by the First Party.
2. This Agreement applies only to the following file.
3. Borrower’s name or file number
4. Mid-States will perform the following duties.
a. Receive documents by (check option which applies) email fax pick up edoc borrower
b. Confirm appointment if at all possible with borrower. If unable to reach borrower will leave a message if possible with a return number so borrower can contact Mid-States.
c. Arrive at appointment location at least 5 minutes prior to appointment time.
d. Will contact First Party by phone or email, if required, at arrival to appointment location.
e. Witness signatures and notarize all documents properly.
f. Contact First Party upon completion, if required.
g. Will fax necessary documents to First Party or whomever they designate, if required.
h. Will return documents by (check option which applies) email fax deliver mail overnight
i. Will follow all instruction given by First Party for the process and successfully complete the signing.
j. Will follow correct procedures as specified by the First Party and as required by state laws and regulations in order to successfully complete signing for the First Party.
5. In exchange for services rendered, First Party agrees to pay Mid-States a fee of $ which will satisfy any obligation First Party has to Mid-States for this particular signing. First Party agrees to pay all fees within days of successful completion of assignment. Mid-States will invoice the First Party within 3 days of the completion of the assignment by fax, email or USPS. Non-receipt of the invoice does not release First Party from its obligation to pay fees to Mid-States.
6. If there are any deductions which would reduce monies due Mid-States due to clerical errors, mistakes by the notary or negligence the reduction in fees will be outlined in the separate independent contractor’s agreement and the rate sheets/deduction schedule provided by the First Party. If there are no rate sheets provided by the party the fee listed in paragraph 4 is the agreed fee for services with no deductions allowed. The rate sheet/deductions schedule will be listed as the addendum, exhibit A, to this agreement and will be provided by the First Party.
7. Mid-States reserves the right to charge additional fees if, as a result of errors by the First Party, lenders, title companies, brokers, banks or escrow managers if Mid-States is required to make more than one trip or set more than one appointment to complete the assignment.
8. If the appointment with the borrower is cancelled at least 24 prior to the scheduled signing time by First Party, lenders, title companies, brokers, banks, escrow managers or borrower there will be no monies due Mid-States as a cancellation fee.
9. If the appointment is cancelled with less than 24 hours notice by the First Party, lenders, title companies, brokers, banks, escrow managers or borrowers, the First Party agrees to pay Mid-States a cancellation fee of $50.00 payable within 15 days of the scheduled appointment. Mid-States will invoice the First Party within 3 days of the cancellation by fax, email or USPS. Non-receipt of the invoice does not release First Party from its obligation to pay fees to Mid-State’s.
10. This agreement is not intended to replace or nullify the existing independent contractor agreement between Mid-States and the First Party. It is intended to assist Mid-States in collecting monies due the company by signing agencies, title companies, lenders, brokers and banks. The independent contractor agreement will be listed as the addendum, exhibit B.
11. Furthermore, the First Party agrees to pay all funds promptly and without delay. If Mid-States does not receive the funds within the amount of time allotted in paragraph 4, Mid-States will impose an initial late fee of $25.00. Mid-States will also charge the First Party interest on any outstanding balance at the rate of 1.37% per month or the maximum allowed by law, whichever is less.
12. First Party also agrees to be responsible to Mid-States for any expenses Mid-States incurs as a result of depositing instruments into their accounts which are returned by First Party’s financial institutions as non-payable due to insufficient funds or stopped payment.
13. First Party agrees to be responsible for any and all collection costs, legal fees and court costs Mid-States may incur during the course of collecting monies due from First Party due to non-payment.
14. This Agreement shall be interpreted in accordance with the laws applicable to Agreements executed and wholly performed in the State of Kansas (the jurisdiction). Any dispute or claim arising out of or in relation to the terms of this Agreement, in part or in whole, or any beach thereof, shall be resolved by the rules and laws of the Court of Johnson County, Kansas according to the procedures of the Jurisdiction's Governing Body. Such rules and procedures shall be considered to constitute a part of this Agreement by reference.
15. If any provision in this Agreement is held to be illegal, invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be fully severable, and this Agreement shall be construed and enforced as if such illegal, invalid or unenforceable provision had never been a part of this Agreement. The remaining provisions of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect and shall not be affected by the illegal, invalid or unenforceable provision or by its severance from this Agreement.
16. A copy, reproduction or facsimile of this document will be deemed as worthy and binding as the original document.
17. This Agreement and the Attachments hereto constitute the entire agreement between the contracting parties concerning the subject matter hereof. All prior agreements, discussions, representations, warranties, and covenants are merged herein. There are no warranties, representations, covenants, or agreements, express or implied, between the parties except those expressly set forth in this agreement. Any amendments or modifications of this agreement shall be in writing and executed by the contracting parties.
Michael D. Tomlinson |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 05:10:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
I think that if there is a contract between a notary and signing company the contract should say:
The notary gets paid within 15 days regardless of whether the loan funds or not, and regardless of whether the signing company gets paid.
The notary gets paid assuming the notary didn't make any blunder causing the loan not to sign.
The notary must not arrive more than 30 minutes late to the signing, otherwise the notary will not be used again.
If the borrower refuses to sign or cancels within two hours of the signing, the notary gets paid in full.
No agreement (e.g. Signing Agent Agreement) is necessary, because the confirmation is a contract for services. As such, it should stipulate the terms and conditions. However, in reality, we all know this doesn't happen. That is why whenever I receive a confirmation, there is a written (email) reply stipulating my terms and conditions. (Language is included stating that a lack of response is an agreement to the terms. The hiring agency always has the right to cancel the assignment if they don't agree.) More often than not, the hiring agency agrees with my terms and everything goes well. It must be noted that the only companies that have ever canceled the assignment after receiving my confirmation response, have been some 'questionable' signing services.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 04:07:43 AM
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| Well, as I said, I don't sign contracts but I will comment on one part of your suggestion, Jeremy - the whole of corporate America moves on a 30-day net plan. Many SS's do have contracts with their clients, and are not (as many people assume) always paid per-assignment but in bulk, 30-days net. I have no problem with that, and am not about to try and go against a machine that's been running in this fashion for a long, long time. |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2010 : 10:29:27 PM
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I think that if there is a contract between a notary and signing company the contract should say:
The notary gets paid within 15 days regardless of whether the loan funds or not, and regardless of whether the signing company gets paid.
The notary gets paid assuming the notary didn't make any blunder causing the loan not to sign.
The notary must not arrive more than 30 minutes late to the signing, otherwise the notary will not be used again.
If the borrower refuses to sign or cancels within two hours of the signing, the notary gets paid in full.
Am I on to something?
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 04:17:18 AM
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I was being flip, Vince. I find as Paul does, and I agree with him - I rarely sign anyone's contracts, can only think of one T/C off the top of my head that now has a contract that is a regular client of mine.
When I first started in 2005, I did scour quite a few and did sign some (thinking it was necessary), but only those that were logical & straight-forward. There were many that I pitched in the trash JUST because they were ridiculous - either in length or common sense.
I was not about to hire an attorney to review a bunch of 25 page contracts, nor was I going to just arbitrarily sign them without a qualified review. Further, I was not about to sign non-compete clauses (regardless of whether or not they're enforceable)because I started in this business with a pre-existing relationship to almost 1,000 T/C's, AND because non-competes do NOT tell you who the vendor's clients ARE - how can you agree across the board to not directly approach one of 'their' clients if you don't know who 'they' are, and/or if 'they' are already one of your own clients?!
So to answer your questions: I guess yes, there was a learning curve; yes, my mood could conceivably influence my perception of what is 'ridiculous'; no, my 'hair-day' doesn't really come into play, that was tongue-in-cheek. |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 11:09:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vince
As many of the title companies have contracts to sign...
I don't know of too many real title companies that have contracts. Granted, there are a few, but in my experience, there are very few compared to the number of title agencies needing remote closers.
I submit that title companies that have contracts either are associated with a closing company or have their own signing service. I think I could count the number of independent title companies with contracts on one hand.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2009 : 10:15:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Renee
 I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Vince.
Are you actually saying you may or may not sign a contract depending upon your mood at the time? Or are you saying that you may defer the review of a contract and execution thereof to a time that may be seen as more appropriate?
As many of the title companies have contracts to sign, and as you have likely signed a number of them, you might allow for your learning experience with one or more to affect your willingness to sign or ask questions about others - no? |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 11:54:55 PM
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| I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Vince. |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 5:20:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Renee
I rarely sign contracts, either. Depends on my mood, how many pages I have to read, and what kind of a hair-day I'm having ...
Thought you were more consistent than that. Or perhaps your review of potential contract is more based upon experience than you are admitting. |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2009 : 4:27:20 PM
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I rarely sign contracts, either. Depends on my mood, how many pages I have to read, and what kind of a hair-day I'm having ...
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 6:07:50 PM
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A contract for what? Between you and a signing service? You and a potential client? Please be a bit more specific.
FWIW, I do not sign contracts between myself or my business and signing services, since more often than not, they aren't enforceable anyway and are just about always slanted in favor of the signing service. Actually, some contracts contain language or expectations that are in violation of Florida statutes.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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n/a
Florida
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 5:45:40 PM
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Does anyone have a good notary signing agent contract that they are willing to share with me?
John L. Jackson III |
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