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Originally posted by notaryslife

I've been having issues with Canada, China and Taiwan lately regarding clients calling me back that my California notarization doesn't meet their requirements.

For instance, Taiwan, a non-Hague convention country, requested the client AFTER the Secretary of State certified (the docs from non-hague convention countries get certified not apostilled) that I add additional verbiage that the affinity signed the document in front of me. The lawyer reviewed their request and though the Jurat I used clearly stated "subscribed and sworn" Taiwan was attempting to reject the wording as insufficient. The attorney asked me to add a sentence to the document so I called various reputable sources that said I could perform a non-notary act but not put my name or notary title saying the document was signed before me as long as it wasn't part of the notarization block being inches below it.

The attorney rejected my lawful attempt to fulfill his request, giving me the wording to use that was just another notarial act. I was asked to add my name and title as a notary. Of course, I told him I couldn't do that, it was unlawful.

I contacted the Secretary of State and they told me Taiwan is a problem country, along with China and there is nothing we can do but forward California Gov't Code 8202(a) to them. I forwarded it to the attorney and haven't heard back yet.

Canada's another country that requests unlawful notary acts, expect us to sign on a page with no notarial wording regardless we add our certificate. They say we must sign where they request.

China asks that we notarize each page and the only way around this is to make each page a separately signed document and put our wording on each document.

Would anyone like to share their experience trying to help a client get through a foreign country's unlawful requests?

Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life

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Originally posted by edelske

can you please tell me why did the Taiwan consulate request...

I certainly can not answer that question, I just don't know. Best to ask them directly.

When dealing with sovereign nations; they have the right to "set their own rules". China requires an exact copy (which they keep) for them to do LEGALIZATION. Brazil is very fussy about how a document is bound. Etc.

Of course we must respect our individual states rules as the ultimate authority. NOT EVERY problem has a nice solution. Sometimes the rules conflict and there is no solution. The Apostile/Certify was "supposed" to eliminate this type of issue. Regrettably, even that process has exceptions. On a positive note: The situation you encountered is relatively rare. Checking with your SOS was a wise course of action.

My personal policy is to refund the money if someone is unhappy; whatever the reason. It happens so infrequently and allows me to have NO "unhappy" clients. Thank you for your post. I will avoid Taiwan bound notary work based on your experience.

I wish I could provide a solution to complete the project; or a better answer to your question. I just don't see a solution.....



Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com

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Originally posted by edelske

Non-Hague countries receive a CERTIFIED

Hague countries (Article 12 signers) receive an APOSTILLE

States where the notaries signature is verified add an AUTHENTICATION - NY requires this prior to Apostille or Certified being added.

Embassies/Consulates add a LEGALIZATION (generally for commercial documents) - it's basically a tax stamp permitting the document to be used in that country.

Sequence:

1. Notarization
2. Authentication of notarization if required
3. Apostille or Certified based on target country of use
4. Legalization

Note: Jargon varies; eg: China consulate calls adding their tax stamp a "notarization".

Note: Not every step is required in every state.

Note: "Some" countries require the apostille/certified prior to legalization; some, eg: Brazil does not.

I have processed literally thousands of these over the past decade. The key point: The initial notarization MUST be perfect.



Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com

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Originally posted by edelske

Non-Hague countries receive a CERTIFIED

Hague countries (Article 12 signers) receive an APOSTILLE

States where the notaries signature is verified add an AUTHENTICATION - NY requires this prior to Apostille or Certified being added.

Embassies/Consulates add a LEGALIZATION (generally for commercial documents) - it's basically a tax stamp permitting the document to be used in that country.

Sequence:

1. Notarization
2. Authentication of notarization if required
3. Apostille or Certified based on target country of use
4. Legalization

Note: Jargon varies; eg: China consulate calls adding their tax stamp a "notarization".

Note: Not every step is required in every state.

Note: "Some" countries require the apostille/certified prior to legalization; some, eg: Brazil does not.

I have processed literally thousands of these over the past decade. The key point: The initial notarization MUST be perfect.



Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com

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Originally posted by notaryslife

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Originally posted by LindaH



Your requestors may not be using the words accurately due to their language barrier, but I believe that's the process for foreign documents and that may be the additional language/pages they're looking for.

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Hi Linda: I wasn't asking about the fundamentals of the process, but a specific technical issue. I wrote the document had already gone to the SOS for certification and the country was Taiwan, Non-Hague convention status. Anyway. . .

The lawyer is working on behalf of the client that contacted about Taiwan's problem with the CA Jurat. I tried to accommodate by adding a line of text and signing it below the notarial wording but he wants another notarial act with my name and title in the language that I can't perform according to the CA SOS office. We can't go around rewriting our language to suit non-Hague especially countries.

In my humble opinion, we should never allow these countries to dictate, demand and conform to their requests to alter our laws to suit their whims. If they can't understand our English, they need to get a translator to explain to them what "subscribe" means.

Non-Hague countries get certified, not apostilled by the way. They asked after the SOS certification for additional language.



Sincerely yours,


Notary's Life

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Originally posted by LindaH



Your requestors may not be using the words accurately due to their language barrier, but I believe that's the process for foreign documents and that may be the additional language/pages they're looking for.

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Originally posted by jbelmont

I don't see any problem with adding a quick note stating that the signer signed before you. For a notary act to be official and acceptable in a particular state it needs the official state wording. However, I don't know of any notary rule that states that adding "quick notes" is not legal. If you are asking advice from people, where are they getting their standards from? Read through your state's notary codes and laws and see if there is any prohibition against adding quick notes.

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