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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2011 : 06:18:40 AM
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Renee, you made some very good points. Yes, I believe Eve is talking about the lender's HUD. Most of my work is direct from TC, but many people at various TC's don't seem that knowledgeable about what is supposed to get signed and what isn't. I've had a settlement agent say that I missed a signature in the middle of the loan closing instructions, the part that says:
NOTICE ON FHA LOANS: IF USING YOUR HUD-1 RATHER THAN THE ONE PREPARED
AND SENT WITH THIS CLOSING PACKAGE, BE SURE THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE IS
INCLUDED ON THE LAST PAGE:
I have carefully read the HUD-1 Settlement Statement and to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is a true and accurate statement of all receipts and disbursements made on my account or by me in this
transaction. I further certify that I have received a copy of the HUD-1 Settlement Statement.
___________________________ ________________________________
Borrower
The above language is in the closing instructions of some loans (this one was a Suntrust) as an EXAMPLE of what wording to use and the required signature lines. Borrower should not be asked to sign this.
I also recently was contacted by a TC that said I forgot to sign the HUD as the settlement agent. I was flabbergasted! I told them that I am not the settlement agent, I did not prepare the document, I will not cause funds to be disbursed, and I never sign the HUD.
I agree that the preliminary or lender HUD should not even be in the package, but if it has signature lines with their names pre-printed on it, then I ask the borrowers to sign it so I don't get accused by TC of missing a signature - just easier for me in the long run. I've never had anyone refuse to sign it after explaining that it is a preliminary lender HUD. I don't even show it to the borrowers if there are no signature lines. |
Edited by - CopperheadVA on 10/08/2011 07:44:47 AM |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2011 : 03:25:00 AM
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I think you're likely talking about the Lender's HUD.
The lender's loan pkg is often sent to us exactly as Settlement receives it, and includes many documents (such as the Lender's HUD, tax info sheet, closing instructions, Allonge, etc.) that are used internally or are for the Settlement Agent.
Lender's HUD is usually INCOMPLETE - it contains only the line items that Lender is reponsible for and provides; Settlement Agent uses the items/fees off that Lender's HUD to complete the Final HUD by adding in the items they're responsible for, and doing the final computations. Once the Settlement Agent completes it, they send it back to the Lender to approve - and then Settlement includes that Final HUD in their 'title' or Settlement docs, or even as a separate attachement.
Every Lender is different, though. Some Lenders don't send the whole pkg UNTIL the Final HUD is approved, and in that case their own HUD may match the Final one.
As we know, every client we work for has their own 'right' way for signings. What you do with those internal docs & Lender's HUDS depends on the client's directives.
What I find is that SS's are more likely to tell you to have everything in the pkg signed and/or initialed - which is why I much prefer working directly with Settlement. My Title/Settlement clients would be aghast if I had the Lender's HUD signed - for the very reason you've brought it up, it only confuses and sometimes upsets the Borrower.
But, I can appreciate WHY we are sometimes told to have EVERYTHING signed - it's a lot safer and certainly easier than trying to absolutely ensure that the NSA is capable of deciphering this one from that one, what's internal and what's not.
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Eve
Virginia
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2011 : 6:06:29 PM
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Thanks for the input! I think in this one case, the borrower was done before I walked in the door so when he saw he was expected to sign two very different HUD-1s, he just shut down. It was also the day of the earthquake so that didn't help matters.  Still think it's confusing but I'm not in that side of the business; maybe they need to show the progression of the loan.
quote:
Originally posted by CopperheadVA
I see preliminary HUD's all the time. Never had instructions to pull it. Sometimes there are signature lines on it with borrowers names preprinted. I've never had instructions for them not to sign it, so I tell them it's a preliminary version, that the final HUD is the one we signed in the beginning, but the lender has it in here for signature. If there are no signature lines on it, I don't show it to the borrowers.
We are not mindreaders and cannot determine what they don't want signed, so if it has a signature line, I ask the borrowers to sign it. Part of my job is not to have to go back out again for missed signatures.
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2011 : 09:37:53 AM
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I see preliminary HUD's all the time. Never had instructions to pull it. Sometimes there are signature lines on it with borrowers names preprinted. I've never had instructions for them not to sign it, so I tell them it's a preliminary version, that the final HUD is the one we signed in the beginning, but the lender has it in here for signature. If there are no signature lines on it, I don't show it to the borrowers.
We are not mindreaders and cannot determine what they don't want signed, so if it has a signature line, I ask the borrowers to sign it. Part of my job is not to have to go back out again for missed signatures. |
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Eve
Virginia
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2011 : 09:14:05 AM
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There is a title company I've done a few signings for that always includes the latest HUD-1, of course, but further back in the package is an earlier HUD-1 they call a "mock up." It isn't stamped "mock-up", "sample", "copy" or anything. It has the borrower's info and looks like the real deal. In some cases, the only difference between the two versions is the date/time at the bottom of the form. Perhaps it's used internally but, if so, why include it in the final package to me?
I've done subsequent signings for this company and know now to look out for this but at the first signing it was the last straw for an already disgruntled borrower.
The TC/LO were most unhappy I didn't pull the earlier version -- I said I might have spotted it if they got the docs to me earlier than 15 mins prior to closing.
Why do they include this earlier HUD-1 in the package at all? Anyone know? Of course, I felt like an idiot that I didn't catch it.
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Dannotary
California
265 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 12:31:10 AM
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| Laylanii, its not your fault. When I am printing and setting up my package, I flip through it all first and sometimes I notice if a page is missing like first page of 1003 or w-9 for instance, or if package has other borrowers docs in it, all this happens sometimes. BUt it is NOT yours/our responsibility to check numbers and computations. In fact my Hold Harmless agreement says thatI am not responsible for the legal content or accuracy of their docs. Yes, notaries get the blame for anything and everything, our fault or not,esp when some janky mortgage outfits funds dont come in , in time for funding and they are looking for delays, so its easy to jive the notary into thinking they goofed on something when they need to stall off the closing. I cannot agree with Ed more, that is my exact position. |
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crtowles
California
553 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 10:17:54 AM
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I personally try to look over the documents before I go to the closing (if I get them in time). If I notice something then I will call whomever gave me the job. If they tell me to proceed then that is what I'll do. It is up to the borrower to notice if the information is correct or not. That is not my responsibility. My job is to verify identity and signature. The rest of it is up to the other party of interes.
Carmen |
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8702
California
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 3:46:04 PM
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| I have been down this path with Signing services. It is easier to point the finger then to take responsibility. I have brought mistakes to the LO's attention at the table and have been told to continue with the closing, even knowing that the closing is a complete waste of time and a redraw would be soon to follow. Just know that we have alot more responsibility then to just witness and notarize. |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 2:11:29 PM
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NJoseph,
"The borrowers trust us to point out pertinent information at the closing and have confidence that we are providing them with correct documentation to execute."
I for one do not wish to accept the responsibility of determining what is "pertinent" - perhaps THE most important issue in the borrower's mind is the pre-payment situation, or can someone "assume" the loan?
In perhaps, a physical sense, I am "providing" the documents - but I am certainly not the point of origin; nor do I in any way vouch for the "correctness" of the paperwork.
I do not consider it my function to proofread or verify consistency of the numbers. Of course I do look at them when printing, and glaring oddities are reported. Frankly, the pay scale does not warrant providing a detailed examination. The "bug" described is quite rare and I doubt you will ever find such a mismatch again - having done several thousand similar sets over the past decade.
Notaries have been blamed for sloppy borrower handwriting, FedEx delays, and whatever else causes the package to not fund. I answer questions asked within the scope of my job function - they are mainly "where can I find .....". Beyond that it goes to the LO.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
Edited by - edelske on 09/29/2011 12:32:59 PM |
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laylanii
10 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 12:09:57 PM
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| Thanks for your response. I can see what you mean that the borrowers rely on us to show them this info. I will definitely put this experience in my lesson book. |
Edited by - laylanii on 11/09/2011 7:56:19 PM |
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NJoseph
New York
3 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 8:16:04 PM
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Laylanii - so sorry this happened to you  . In broad general terms -- I totally agree with you that we, the notaries, are sometimes used as scapegoats.
In this specific instance tho, I am in line with the title company's point of view. The discrepancy is something you should have caught during the closing if not prior to  .
The borrowers trust us to point out pertinent information at the closing and have confidence that we are providing them with correct documentation to execute. Since they are not familiar with the forms, they may not catch errors. When I print the docs for a closing, I always check the critical three -- HUD, Note, Mortgage to ensure that they match. Generally, if they're good then the rest of the docs are fine. It is not our job to perform quality control on behalf of the TC or Lender. However, it is our responsibility to pick up discrepancies on the basics.
NO (!), this does not make you a bad notary. Noone is infallible, especially during busy days and under duress with time constraints. Chalk it up as a tough lesson learned and use it as a building block to revamp the list of things you double (if not triple) check when reviewing documents before-during-after printing or with borrowers.
I so hope you're able to get this particular issue resolved as quickly and painlessly as possible. I empathize with you and wish you well. Sorry again that you had that experience.
Best regards,
NJ
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laylanii
10 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 3:25:31 PM
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| Thanks for your response. I do agree that docs should be correct and ready when they reach us. Not even the borrowers noticed and they're the ones that are supposed to be reading it! I feel a lot of times the notaries are used as scapegoats. |
Edited by - laylanii on 09/23/2011 3:26:01 PM |
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2011 : 1:30:02 PM
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I don't feel it's your responsibility.
I have caught numerous mistakes in packages and when I see one, I alert the TC. For example, if the TIL or RTC is missing, or wife is on title docs but not on critical lender docs, etc. I do the best I can to notice something obvious, but honestly I don't check to make sure that the loan amount on the HUD is the same as what's on the Note. The borrower or I *may* notice a discrepancy during the appointment, but again maybe not. It's such a rare occurrence that it's not something that I look for.
I can't get over how the notary is sometimes expected to be the ultimate QC person for the docs. Docs are supposed to be correct and ready to sign when they reach us. IF we notice something that doesn't look right, I feel we should say something. But when we do that, I feel it's done as courtesy to the TC and is NOT something that we should be held responsible for. The good companies don't try to blame the notary when they mess up. The HUD should not even be a big deal for them to correct during the RTC period.
<< most of the time I'm focused on getting the paperwork signed >>
EXACTLY! Couldn't agree more. |
Edited by - CopperheadVA on 09/21/2011 2:10:52 PM |
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laylanii
10 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2011 : 10:35:18 AM
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| I completed a closing and returned all the paperwork. A couple days later I get an email that the loan amount on the HUD and on the loan package are two different amounts. The TC acknowledged that it was their fault they sent the wrong paperwork, but said this is something I should've caught at closing. Do you check things like this? I sometimes catch mistakes like this, but most of the time I'm focused on getting the paperwork signed. Does this make me look like a bad notary because I didn't catch it? (neither did the borrowers or the person who sent me the paperwork). |
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IS THIS MY RESPONSIBILITY???
