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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2011 : 09:24:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by edelske
Over the years I have had several assignments where I was explicitly told to NOT print a borrower copy. You guessed it - the borrower was not to receive their "Right to Cancel" among other docs. Of course I did provide the borrower copy. Sometimes I am sent a second PDF - the "borrower copy" - always "shorter" and missing some pages. "They" tell me that "they" do that "to save me paper". Rubbish I say. I always give the borrower an exact and full copy of what they sign - one of the few cases where I will totally ignore directions from my employer. Might lose the client - but won't lose sleep!
One "heads up" - when you get that last minute update, a newer HUD or TIL, ALSO swap out the pages in the borrower copy! It has to remain in sync with the one they actually signed. Do not just add the newer pages to the back of the pile. Many forms acknowledge, by the borrower signature, receiving a copy of the document.
One form to watch out for:
You are familiar with the Right to Cancel" however there is a related document that basically says that 3 days have passed and the borrower has chosen to NOT cancel. On a few occasions I have been asked to have the borrower sign and date (3 days in the future) that doc. Just as backdating is a nono - so is future dating - IMHO, so I tell the borrower to complete and submit (from their copy set) that form in 3 days. I have been told lame reasons for the request. "Borrowers forget to send it in, they don't bother, etc." Well, that's an issue between borrower and bank - in other words - not my problem. Asking a borrower to sign a document, prior to them fully reading the package, that says they have not chosen to exercise their right to cancel; frankly, stinks - and I will never ask for such a doc to be signed.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com
I agree Ken. I don't like getting that doc signed in advance either - I leave it up to the borrower as to whether they want to sign it or not. If they don't I get fax instructions from SS/TC to provide to borrowers.
As for copies of the package, I've been told that too, and I can understand it that there are a lot of "junk" docs that borrowers don't need. If the company insists on my not providing copies, I let them know I will be providing copies of the critical legals at the table (Note, Mtge, an riders, HUD, TIL <<which I believe by law they MUST receive at the table>>, NORTC,) I'll do it on my dime if I have to but at least borrowers can't say they were left empty-handed....if you have a rescindable loan, how the heck can you NOT leave copies for borrowers to review during the rescission period.
Same thing for RESPA's - "don't leave copies" - okay, but they get at least their Good Faith Estimate...
JMO
Linda
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 06:33:46 AM
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Over the years I have had several assignments where I was explicitly told to NOT print a borrower copy. You guessed it - the borrower was not to receive their "Right to Cancel" among other docs. Of course I did provide the borrower copy. Sometimes I am sent a second PDF - the "borrower copy" - always "shorter" and missing some pages. "They" tell me that "they" do that "to save me paper". Rubbish I say. I always give the borrower an exact and full copy of what they sign - one of the few cases where I will totally ignore directions from my employer. Might lose the client - but won't lose sleep!
One "heads up" - when you get that last minute update, a newer HUD or TIL, ALSO swap out the pages in the borrower copy! It has to remain in sync with the one they actually signed. Do not just add the newer pages to the back of the pile. Many forms acknowledge, by the borrower signature, receiving a copy of the document.
One form to watch out for:
You are familiar with the Right to Cancel" however there is a related document that basically says that 3 days have passed and the borrower has chosen to NOT cancel. On a few occasions I have been asked to have the borrower sign and date (3 days in the future) that doc. Just as backdating is a nono - so is future dating - IMHO, so I tell the borrower to complete and submit (from their copy set) that form in 3 days. I have been told lame reasons for the request. "Borrowers forget to send it in, they don't bother, etc." Well, that's an issue between borrower and bank - in other words - not my problem. Asking a borrower to sign a document, prior to them fully reading the package, that says they have not chosen to exercise their right to cancel; frankly, stinks - and I will never ask for such a doc to be signed.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2011 : 04:04:18 AM
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I totally agree with LindaH about that national organization and everything else she said. I was a member of NNA my first year as a notary, but I quickly found that they were constantly sending me renewal notices even though I was not yet due for renewal, and sending me advertisements for other products and services in an effort for me to send them more and more and ever more money. As Linda noted, the info they give out is not always accurate.
CopperheadVA
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2011 : 02:33:44 AM
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Time will teach you who to trust - and all due respect to SOME of the good they've done, but the NNA is not the most reliable source of info. Many, many of us have been given bad advice by them; and their primer was so rife with errors I threw mine out.
Of course they're going to suggest a collection agency to you - they have their own in-house collection department, don't they!? For a fee? In all honesty, I'd drop it. IMO you're not entitled to be paid for something you didn't do. Also, check your confirmation closely - see if there's anything in it (as most contain) that states "if you don't do <<action>> we will deduct $xx from your fee".
Take this as a lesson well learned and, going forward, always always always make a copy of the package for the borrowers - it's the job, it's standard procedure, and in some aspects, it's the law.
Linda
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com |
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D Bozick
California
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 7:18:23 PM
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| Thanks for responding. What's interesting, however, is that the individual I spoke to on the NNA Hotline, who I called for advice on the matter, concurred that the second set of docs should have been asked for. They, in fact, recommended I contact a collection agency, which I told them I wouldn't do because the amount was so small. Supposedly, they're seasoned notaries on that hotline, whom I've always trusted in the past, but now it makes me wonder. |
Edited by - D Bozick on 08/16/2011 7:39:09 PM |
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 6:20:45 PM
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Anytime that the notary prints docs, it is expected and is also industry standard for the notary to provide a copy package to leave with the borrowers. You are right that this may not have been stated in your instructions, but it is ALWAYS assumed that we will provide a copy package to the borrowers if we are contracted to print e-docs as part of that particular assignment.
If docs are overnighted to us, the title company will provide one copy to sign and one copy to leave with the borrowers.
I agree with LindaH that you should cash the check, stop asking the company to pay you any additional monies, and chalk it up to a learning experience. And then going forward, be sure to always print a second copy of the docs to leave with the borrower.
CopperheadVA
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 5:59:34 PM
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Yes, it's typical - that's the job. At the time of signing, it is imperative that the signers be provided with a copy of the documents they've signed. It's always a given that the fee quoted includes printing two sets of docs - one for signature, one for signers.
As a signing agent, or a notary accepting loan signing assignments, you should know this. Title can promise all they want that they'll send borrowers a copy on CD or executed copies later - but the law requires that borrowers be provided certain documents at the table. One, the RTC, two the TIL - and it's only common sense. Would YOU sign a loan package for several hundred thousand dollars and NOT expect a copy of what you've signed?
I'm surprised that you're surprised. I'm also surprised that, if you've never done it, you haven't had your fee docked up until now. You should not have to see it in the instructions. If you took any loan signing courses or certification courses, this info should have been included in your course - if it wasn't, you were shortchanged. This is standard operating procedure.
So you can go ahead and cash the check because you have no complaint. They're within their rights to dock your pay for a partial job.
JMO
Linda
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com |
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D Bozick
California
17 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 5:15:46 PM
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| I did a loan signing 6 weeks ago for Quickdocs and finally (after several calls and emails asking to be paid) got a check.....but only for partial payment. I was told that my fee was reduced because I did 'not print a second copy'. Nowhere on any of the documents or emails they sent me before the signing, did it say that a second copy was required. Nor was it ever discussed in a phone conversation. I pointed this out to them in an email, which got no response. The short check they sent me was noted with, 'Payment in Full'. Of course I won't cash it but at the same time, feel that I'm going to have a real fight on my hands. I've done a few signings where the title company cc'd the buyer their own set of edocs ahead of time, which they had when I arrived at the signing. Is it typical to print a second set without being asked to? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you. |
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Printing additional copies of loan docs
