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Conniek
Oregon
78 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2011 : 10:24:03 PM
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I am not for a Union as that entails dues, etc for what? Maybe just a co-op where we chat with our in state Notaries as in, help with issues, etc. Banks are not lending so how much will we be needed??
ConnieK's Oregon Mobile Notary |
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
678 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 4:38:17 PM
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Unions, networks, whatever... I submit that if a hiring entity asked maybe 2 questions (yes, they could even vary the questions) at the time of hiring, they could tell 'experience' from 'wannabe' in a heartbeat. However, seems all they really want to make a hiring decision on is price.
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Conniek
Oregon
78 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 11:40:46 AM
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We have the National Notary Association. How about a state-wide association so questions can be according to the states guidelines!! Also, Notaries can have a mentor group within the state, county or city!!
ConnieK's Oregon Mobile Notary |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2011 : 10:20:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Renee
I was just trying to point out the huge disparity between 4 hours and a year, but yes there's also a difference in the duties ...
How about 3 mos? 
Yep...IMO easily 3 months...I'd go 6 - just so I have time to throw in some training in title work...
To me, 4 hours is just enough time to get everyone's eyes glazed over...then class is out!!
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - but a lot of knowledge is a lifesaver....:)
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
Edited by - LindaH on 02/12/2011 10:21:04 AM |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2011 : 09:58:59 AM
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I was just trying to point out the huge disparity between 4 hours and a year, but yes there's also a difference in the duties ...
How about 3 mos? |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2011 : 07:00:04 AM
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I agree, Renee (what else is new) - but..
" I used to train lender closers, and it took an average of ONE YEAR of full-time training."
Yes - one year - to train them in all the things a "closer" does - which is far more than we do in the field as signing agents. Remember, we're only supposed to be presenting the docs and getting them signed properly, notarizing where necessary. We're technically not a "closer" -
Do I agree with this? No - I think anyone doing loan signings should have a working knowledge of the lending process and the docs involved - or be given sufficient education in that area. Add to that some knowledge of real estate law - which comes into play every time we sit down and do a signing. Having this training/knowledge at hand makes it so much easier to handle situations at the table in an efficient, professional manner. It also would separate the truly able SA's from the "want a piece of the pie" notaries.
Someone posted a statement right here yesterday which just made me cringe - looking to do signings to supplement income..."I guess I'm not understanding what the big deal is about notarizing loan documents and how it differs from other notarizations. But it sounds like there's money to be made without any major investment, financial or time. And since I'm already a notary..." IMO it's this attitude that's really hurting the industry...
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2011 : 03:52:37 AM
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IMO ....the primary weakness in the NSA field is its completely subjective structure. Nothing is defined, therefore there can't be any kind of standard.
In my dreams, I wake up one day and find the ranks have been designated into 2 separate groups - notaries, and loan signing agents - and NSA's are restricted from marketing as such, unless they are able to provide remote services that are otherwise equal to that of an in-house closer.
Obviously, there are logistical differences & certain states impose other restrictions - but my point is hopefully clear. In case it isn't, IMO you either ARE a fully capable NSA, or you are a notary - and there is nothing beneficial to our industry or to the consumers by enabling NSA's who are actually only providing notarial services (i.e. 'point-n-sign') yet marketing as 'loan signing agents'.
Who benefits from this lack of distinction? 1) Those who purport to train notaries as NSA's in 4 hour seminars; 2) Those who seek services by price.
Who suffers from this? 1) Our industry as a whole; 2) Reputable clients who are up-in-arms trying to sort the two; 3) All parties to the transactions.
It's a self-feeding loop. Notaries see a cheap/quick means of increasing their income by adding NSA services to their marketing, SOMETIMES even taking a course, maybe even a cert test. Instruction providers see a cheap/quick means of increasing their income by offering but the barest of the fundamentals. Reputable clients just don't have the time to weed through, & their lives are much easier handing that off to SS's. SS's will take the risks of errors & go for the cheapest warm body, and handle all the paper-chasing headaches to fix errors as part of their business plan.
Repeating myself (after 6 years, this happens A LOT) - I used to train lender closers, and it took an average of ONE YEAR of full-time training. After just 4 hours - you could barely get the gist of how things even work!
How can a distinction be made, and a standard outlined? I think it would be easy - rather than having other notaries defining things or writing cert tests, these things should be done by settlement agents, or those who have been settlement agents. <--Ultimately, those are whom we are attempting to impress w/our credentials in the first place.
Imagine the buy-in, were THEY asked to assist in compiling a standard, given some ownership to outline a standard designed to give them what they WANT. I wonder if they would support an entity that would do that? If they supported it with their phone-dialing-finger, what impact would that have for the entity being supported?
Just my morning-coffee thoughts.
Edited to add: IMO, a cert test should take 4 hours, you can imagine then how long I think the training should take. |
Edited by - Renee on 02/12/2011 03:56:55 AM |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 6:40:03 PM
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I think that a union wouldn't work. There are too many notaries coming in and out of this profession with varying levels of dedication and skill. To be unionized you should be in it for life, or most of your life, and be highly skilled and qualified. That rules out more than half of the individuals in this industry.
However, here is an interesting point. There could be associations that have certain standards for notary training and conduct. NNA and 123notary have certifications. Neither of the certifications are a perfect way to assess a notary's skills, but its much better than not having a certification.
Additionally, if notaries in an association all have a certain level of experience and all agree to background check companies before they work for them, then the bad signing companies are immediately weeded out.
123notary is trying to achieve some of the results that a union might try to achieve by creating standards, and access to information. NR and NNA are also providing fantastic resources.
The biggest problem is really willingness. There are always the really serious notaries who do everything right. Its the lack of cooperation from others that causes a problem. For example, if ALL notaries would background check all signing companies that called them, the rip-off companies wouldn't last 24 hours, and the community would be safe.
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 1:32:49 PM
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| Or there's Option C - forming a local or state-wide network. For marketing purposes, no dues, direct hire only (referrals to the client, to directly hire a network member). |
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BobbiCT
Connecticut
135 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 11:17:50 AM
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Notaries Public, as public officials, cannot form a union.
Signing agents are Independent Contractors, which I believe are also prohibited from unionizing.
That leaves forming a "something" for marketing purposes with dues paying members, or forming a members-only profit sharing signing service that parcels out the work, collects the signing fee, and then pays the NSA - resulting in the non-members still being able to undercut them with lower fees.
Bobbi in CT |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 06:42:53 AM
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My observation of the last 4.5 years of reading the forums is those who cry for a union are those who have worked for low pay/slow pay/no pay companies and are now having problems getting paid - I don't recall ever reading any post where someone stated "wow, I get paid top dollar and have no problems collecting so let's unionize"...
Aside from the price-fixing aspect of the whole thing, I don't think it's necessary - a union is not going to save signings agents from themselves (and yes, it's just SA's - for the most part, notaries get paid at time of signing - no invoicing or collecting) - there are still going to be those who continue to work for the low pay/slow pay/no pay companies, but under the umbrella of a union they think they're safe - and they're not...
The only union they need is due diligence and common sense.
MHO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2011 : 05:11:10 AM
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I would be careful about using the word "union". There are already national notary and signing agent organizations. What would be accomplished by starting another one? (Remember the issue about setting fees and charges. The DOJ and FTC frown upon such things.)
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2011 : 11:20:18 PM
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One of our notaries brought up the idea of starting a nationwide notary union. I'm not sure how it would work, or if it would work. What are your thoughts?
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Question 32 - Forming a nationwide union?
