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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2010 : 5:57:31 PM
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| Correction: .......not us folks who facilitate the signing and notarize signatures on a few docs. |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2010 : 3:02:35 PM
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Notaries, Signing Agents and any other label you'd like to add - none of them close loans. I have a R.E. license - for which I understand and can say a little more than the average Notary or SA - but I do not close anything.
The Closing Agent (Escrow Officer), employed by the TC/Escrow Company closes the loan, not us folks who facilitate the signing and notarize a few docs.
Now I am NOT arguing with what we call ourselves. You can call yourself whatever you'd like, it does not matter. But the truth of the matter is: We do not close.....the Escrow Officer or TC employee is the Closer.
Again, call yourself what YOU want to call yourself but you cannot decide the DUTY.....we are NOT the Closer. I do agree that if your background was previously in Title and Escrow and you have the foresight and experience to recognize errors on the HUD that the average SA wouldn't catch, and can answered more complex questions from the client - that is of great benefit to the borrowers and the entity who hires you. But still, you are NOT the Closer. You facilitate the signing - that's it.
That's the way I see it. And because I see it that way, there's no question in my mind that I am to bypass a certain document within the loan package because it is not for me, the SA, but for the Closing
Agent (and I'm not the Closing Agent). Other persons who keep saying they do "closings" are the ones who get on the forums asking if they were supposed to sign a certain document that had "Closing Agent" under the siggy line.
When they know who they are, they don't need to ask that. |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2010 : 06:52:25 AM
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I was speaking "generalized services" amongst the 'NSA' community. Usually we tend to break them into only 2 'types' - the "point 'n sign" type, and the "signing agent" type. I think there are actually 3 types. Of course, a "type" isn't any kind of a distinct definition, just a generalization.
Even on the inside, there's assumed duties to each title, and then there's each company's assigned duties - regardless of actual title. Wholesale closers are an entirely different animal than a closer in retail, and different than a brokered-loan closer, which is totally different than a title closer ...but it's the employer who defines the actual duties of each.
I do recall when I was a wholesale closing/funding manager ...I also did shipping and made the coffee. That's all I'm saying .. |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2010 : 05:24:12 AM
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I agree and disagree. I agree that notaries do not facilitate a closing. Notaries are limited in what they can do and how things are done.
However, as Signing Agents, we do facilitate a closing or at least a major part of the closing. There's really no definition or job description for a closer, except those provided by mortgage companies, title companies and general usage of the term. Even within the industry, from my experience, the term closer is broken down into three sub-types: Mortgage Loan Closer; Title Closer; and Remote Closer.
Mortgage Loan Closer - The person or persons employed by the lender to prepare and review the lender docs, and work with the Title Closer to prepare and facilitate the execution of (closing) documents.
Title Closer - The person or persons employed by a Title Company and/or Settlement Company to prepare and review title docs (mostly property related), and work with the Mortgage Loan Closer. The Title Closer is usually the responsible person for ensure all documents (lender and title) are prepared, compiled and executed. If the closing takes place in-house, it is the Title Closer that facilitates the table closing (execution and distribution of documents). The Title Closer is also generally responsible for the distribution of funds in accordance with the instructions from the lender (if any) and as directed by the HUD/Settlement Statement. If the table closing needs to be completed away from the title company, the Title Closer may arrange for a Remote Closer to facilitate the execution and distribution of the documents. Additionally, Title Closers are typically also notaries, so documents requiring notarization can be completed during the closing.
Remote Closer - The person or persons who typically are independent notaries that have the knowledge and skills to facilitate the execution of the documents with the borrower/property owners (buyers and sellers). The Remote Closer performs the face-to-face portion of the closing that the Title Closer is ultimately responsible for. In the 'early days', a Remote Closer was often an employee of a title company, not necessarily the same company that the Title Closer works for. The Remote Closer typically travels to a location convenient to the signers. When a secondary title company is performing a closing for another title company, it is called a "Courtesy Closing". This is simply an agreement between two title companies to facilitate the closing on a property. Remote Closers also need to be notaries to be able to properly facilitate the notarizations required. Most states require that notarizations be performed at the time of signing, so the Remote Closer would need to be a notary.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2010 : 04:50:30 AM
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As Paul stated, the "signing agent" label was invented by the NSA industry long after mobile closers were a standard practice. I almost never refer to myself as a signing agent - and it is equally rare that my clients use that term.
I believe there are actually 3 types of generalized services in the whole of the NSA field:
1. Notaries (w/o any further service specific to RE transactions)
2. Notary Signing Agents (w/various degrees of RE transaction expertise but rarely including those who were extensively experienced as closers in an employee capacity).
3. Former employee closers who migrated 'outside' as independents.
I also find it true (again, as Paul mentioned) that many mobile closers stay outside the 'forum loops' & off the radar, particularly those of the 3rd group (of which I am one). I myself know maybe 20 or so that work right in my general area that don't even KNOW there are notary forums, nor ever heard of the term "NSA"; they don't advertise on internet lists and strictly work off word-of-mouth referrals.
As a mobile/contract closer, I often accept responsibilities beyond what most NSA's would or are experienced with (again, a generalized statement). If you contract in or with local settlement agents, you won't work Day 2 if you refuse to: sign Huds, do bank deposits, accept the responsibility to catch certain errors & correct or have corrected, fully explain all documents without crossing the UPL line, distribute proceeds/commission checks, correctly make buy/sell/broker copy pkgs, obtain funding authorization, etc.
EXAMPLE:
Just yesterday I did a closing with a HUD containing multiple errors: escrows weren't correctly calculated, missing County tax pymt which skewed the whole account & would've caused quite the headache for the borrower next year; H/O Ins collected up-front, despite the pd receipt showing it was just paid-in-full, and additionally the escrow acct had the next due date wrong & it would've been paid 2 mos late; Pay Off Ltr was obtained 2 months ago & payoff not updated. These are things that jump off the page for me, and between the time I got the HUD & the actual closing, I had a new HUD - first one had him bringing IN $2600, the new/corrected one had him getting back $240.
1. A "strictly a notary only" wouldn't have even looked at the HUD - that's not wrong at all, either.
2. 99% of NSA's might look, wouldn't likely see/find these errors, but the prevailing attitude is "it's not my job." I would agree with that, unless the experience/knowledge is there to accept it as your job.
3. A closer can't help but look ...it's just what we do, and what is expected of us by our clients and ourselves.
In summary - there's a very broad spectrum, and no matter where a person is on that spectrum, as long as they market themselves accurately & don't advertise as something they're not or perform services they're not capable of performing accurately ...it's all good. 
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2010 : 6:47:41 PM
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If a Notary was incorrectly handling my notarizations...I'd correct him/her on the spot. I'd want my transaction completely correctly.
Notaries are not closers....we facilitate the signing of documents - we don't close anything. However, some like calling themselves closers...whatever floats their boat, I suppose. |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 5:57:11 PM
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"Remote Closer" is synonymous with "Signing Agent" for all practical purposes. However, I submit, that "remote closer" was around before the term 'signing agent' was coined. Historically, remote closers were title company employees that performed the closing at another venue other than the title company office. I still call myself a remote closer more often than a signing agent.
There are lots and lots of remote closers and signing agents than meets the eye. During the hey day, I would estimate that less than 50% were 'online' so they worked in their own vacuum. I would guess the same holds true today. That is, there's more that aren't in tune with all the boards than are. Those that frequent the boards are more sagacious, imo. (Just an observation on my part.)
I am the recipient of many documents where signatures have been notarized, and many of them are not done correctly. (I've had to actually file complaints to the SOS concerning some of them.) In most cases, an invalid notarization will go unnoticed. There are exceptions though. Those notaries who don't notarize correctly are, for the most part, never told of their mistakes. So they happily continue notarizing, sometimes with blatant errors.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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FlaNotary
Florida
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 5:02:35 PM
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I had the chance to view a signing agent today. This was for my own closing with no loan involved, so the package was basically the HUDs with one affidavit. There are several points I'd like to bring up:
First, the entire time the signing agent was referred to as a remote closer. The closing was at the realtors office and everyone there referred to the notary as a "remote closer" rather than a signing agent. Is this common? Are there signing agents who refer to themselves as remote closers?
Second, I wanted to comment on the notary herself. She had already signed and sealed the notary certificate before we signed the document... And the certificate provided did not comply with Florida law (it did not state whether an acknowledgment or oath had been taken, only that the doc was "executed before me"). Since this was an affidavit clearly requiring us to be sworn, a jurat should have been added. This was not done nor was an oath administered.
This notary is big in my area and does a lot of closings. I know many bank notaries cut corners like that, but I thought that most signing agents took their jobs as notaries more seriously...
Robert T. Koehler
Notary Public for the State of Florida
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of Florida in the Bahamas
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of New Hampshire
Certified Loan Signing Agent
AAWO Accredited Wedding Officiant
www.NotaryWeddings.com |
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Signing agent vs remote closer
