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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2010 : 03:50:17 AM
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For leeinla, I've heard from CA notaries on the forums that CA has VERY strict requirements regarding ID and name on ID vs name on the docs. While other states may have leeway with being satisfied with identity, I don't believe CA notaries have that luxury and the name on the ID must exactly match the name on the docs, or you cannot notarize. I'm a VA notary, however, and I'm just going by what I remember reading from CA notaries. It's likely spelled out in your CA notary handbook. Will the TC/Lender probably get mad and stomp their feet? Yes, but your hands are tied since you MUST follow CA notary law.
CopperheadVA
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mtomlinson
Kansas
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2010 : 8:01:23 PM
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In regards to the question about marriage and name change as a result of the marriage, I'm not sure about CA rules as I am not a notary in that state but according to KS law, satisfactory eveidence to the notary is what matters. If they could produce a marriage licence which has been executed which indicates that they are now to be known by the spouses last name and that is now their legal name and legal signatue, I would have them sign with their new last name, strike , initial, date any changes on the documents, include a photocopy of the ID, include a copy of the marriage certificate, have them complete the name and signature affidavit with all name variations and return the packet. If you can get ahold of the lender or TC and get an OK before you go out (if you were aware) or after (if discovered after arrival)that would be preferred but on the spot, I have done this many times and since I had a copy of the marriage licence there was never any issue.
Michael D. Tomlinson |
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leeinla
California
21 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2010 : 2:51:15 PM
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How do you deal with a person that just got married but the their i.d has their maiden name.
Example, the docs were drawn with the wife's married name but her i.d has her previous last name prior to marriage. Do you ask for a different i.d (passport), call the lender, do not notarize the wife? Any help would be appreciated. I am a notary in CA. |
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FlaNotary
Florida
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 06:35:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by BobbiCT
State statutes rule! For those states with vague identification standards in their statutes/laws, the NNA practice is a good guide to keep in mind; however, it neither fits all circumstances nor all states.
Exactly! Our laws only state:
quote:
s. 117.05(5), Fla. Stat. (2009)
A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document unless he or she personally knows, or has satisfactory evidence, that the person whose signature is to be notarized is the individual who is described in and who is executing the instrument.
quote:
s. 117.05(5)(b), Fla. Stat. (2009)
(b) For the purposes of this subsection, "satisfactory evidence" means the absence of any information, evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the person whose signature is to be notarized is not the person he or she claims to be [...]
As long as the evidence presented is satisfactory to the notary, the signature can be notarized. It does not take a full middle name to satisfy me as to a person's identity. Page 61 of our state manual provides that, in cases of married names, etc., we can also view "supporting documentation concerning the name change or additional identification cards, if available [...]" and notate that fact in our journal.
Robert T. Koehler
Notary Public for the State of Florida
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of Florida in the Bahamas
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of New Hampshire
Certified Loan Signing Agent
AAWO Accredited Wedding Officiant
www.NotaryWeddings.com |
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BobbiCT
Connecticut
135 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 05:33:48 AM
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"I agree the "less not more" rule is a myth created by notaries, and there isn't actually any such rule in any statute..."
FYI. "Notaries" should not take the fall for this one. This is not something any notary created. It is a long-time, drummed into every notary member and non-member by the National Notary Association. It is a National Notary Association RULE (sometimes called a "best practice") that the NNA wants notaries public to adhere to.
State statutes rule! For those states with vague identification standards in their statutes/laws, the NNA practice is a good guide to keep in mind; however, it neither fits all circumstances nor all states.
Bobbi in CT |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 1:40:58 PM
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One more note...I too love illegible signers (like me).
It seems neatness is a virtue that few (if any but your elementary school teachers)truly appreciate.
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 1:35:21 PM
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Oh Renee I've been hammered thrice while I was away...sure I love a good debate, but in many ways, I just don't have the energy for them that I once did. That said, Here are my thoughts:
First, I won't debate notary practice [anymore] with non-California notaries as it's a waste of everyone's time. Take it or leave it as I'm a Notary and I do not offer advice...EVER!
Second, as to the more not less thing: Although it is not "written" I believe [as do you I see] it to be good practice. As California has (since January 2008) tried desperately to more definitively define the outlined "Satisfactory Evidence" they have not made it clear in any way. When the Secretary of State is contacted/asked for clarification they are vague and ambiguous. For myself, I wish to be able to demonstrate good practice [in court and out] with regard to such satisfactory evidence. I won't make the leap from Stan to Stanley for example. Although I am not thrilled about doing so, I have occasionally accepted a Jr. or Sr. moniker when other supporting evidence was produced (an original birth certificate with birthdate matching that of the valid I.D. for example). Still, I'm torn under the Satisfactory Evidence rules that don't seem to allow any of this.
Third, my training has taught me that signing the documents exactly as drawn is what is required by the end user(s). Further, that signers/borrowers I.D. must support the name they are being asked to sign (or docs redrawn to a supported name).
Finally, most "myths" have a basis in fact. The truth about the virtue of good practice may not be written anywhere. It is still, good practice.
Really, this is alot of hooohaaa about a subject that rarely comes up. Still, when I stand before the judge [if ever] I want to be able to explain myself and each and every notarization I have performed in a thoughtful and logical way that tells him/her that I fullfilled my oath.
Interesting to see a bit of banter here...I thought it had all moved to Facebook by now...
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
Edited by - Shannon on 08/25/2010 1:43:46 PM |
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Maple
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 11:49:18 AM
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| I agree the "less not more" rule is a myth created by notaries, and there isn't actually any such rule in any statute I've ever seen. But FlaNotary's statement "CWs are reserved for those who do not possess identification at all and can not obtain any" might be true for some states, but isn't true for all of them. The Vermont notary guide (http://vermont-archives.org/notary/guide/pdf/NOTARY%20GUIDE%202006.pdf), on page 10, seems to indicate the best is personal knowledge, the next best is a credible witness known to the notary, who takes an oath about the identity of the signer, and a credible witness without an oath is about equal to ID cards. No where does the manual say anything about not using a credible witness when the signer has ID, or could get ID. |
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FlaNotary
Florida
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 08:39:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Renee
The "more but not less" thing is a decent rule of thumb, but isn't an all-encompassing one nor is it anything written into notarial statutes for any state I've ever read (and by now I've probably read them all). Further, I don't think I've ever seen it represented in any other statute, either.
Correct. The "more but not less" concept is a myth created by notaries. Here in Florida, we frequently have problems with older women who have their maiden name listed on their driver license instead of their true middle name... Florida went through a period where women were required to do this, and when that policy was reversed most women didn't bother to change it. So I've had dozens of instances where the license says "Jane Smith Doe" and the document says "Jane Marie Doe".
Some notaries would say, "No can do". I say, as long as I'm satisfied that the person appearing before me is the person named in the document, I can and will notarize. Credible witnesses can not be used in such a situation either, because CWs are reserved for those who do not possess identification at all and can not obtain any.
Robert T. Koehler
Notary Public for the State of Florida
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of Florida in the Bahamas
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of New Hampshire
Certified Loan Signing Agent
AAWO Accredited Wedding Officiant
www.NotaryWeddings.com |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 04:43:33 AM
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Shannon - I know you LOVE a good debate  The "more but not less" thing is a decent rule of thumb, but isn't an all-encompassing one nor is it anything written into notarial statutes for any state I've ever read (and by now I've probably read them all). Further, I don't think I've ever seen it represented in any other statute, either.
On the Stan/Stanley - I wouldn't have too much trouble reaching personal satisfaction that both name variants are one/same person. I wouldn't necessarily just assume that, but I don't think it would be a real tough problem. The actual statute for MI (and most states) says that personal satisfaction is "based" upon acceptable ID, and "based" is the key word. It does not say "solely" verified by, IOW.
What you'll typically find is one variant used on the lender's docs, and however the person is vested used on TC's docs - when these two don't line up, there's usually going to be some correction needed to the mtg/dot. Just a head's up to the OP there ...ALWAYS check when you see a variation, to make sure the mtg/dot is done correctly.
If there's a variant on the broker's docs - no biggie. If he can sign each set as they're prepared, great. If his signature is completely illegible (as Lisa points out), even better. Make sure the variants are added to the a/k/a to 'tie' the whole thing together (as a courtesy/signing agent service, NOT as a notarial act to help YOU identify someone).
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DianaNotary
California
171 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 11:21:38 PM
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i would go by the name on the ID....but contact the company that hired me to do the signing...
http://www.DianaNotary.com |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 8:37:12 PM
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One additional thought...if it is regarding notarization...if docs are drawn Stanley and borrower's ID says Stan, you have a problem. Docs should be signed as drawn and borrowers can undersign [sign Stan when ID says Stanley] but never oversign [vice-versa]...
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 3:04:17 PM
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I agree with Robert, call the company that hired you for guidance. Check to see if the client's signature is illegible (scribbled). If that's the case, Stan/Stanley, it won't matter.
My signature is illegible so no matter what variation of my name is on documents, I only sign one way - have so for the last 20 years. They may say to have customer sign as name is printed at each place OR sign the longest name in all places. For example: If some docs say Stan Jones and others say Stanley P. Jones and still others say Stanley Paul Jones, the company may have him sign as each name is printed OR Stanley Paul Jones - the longest name, which would cover all bases.
Again, check with the company that hired you. |
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FlaNotary
Florida
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 3:57:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pitty Pat
If a borrowers name is different on different docs how should he sign? Exanple- Stan and Stanley
Ask the company that hired you.
I have read somewhere recently that some companies want the borrower to sign the same way throughout the entire package, but other companies want the borrower to sign exactly as the name is printed below the signature line.
Robert T. Koehler
Notary Public for the State of Florida
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of Florida in the Bahamas
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of New Hampshire
Certified Loan Signing Agent
AAWO Accredited Wedding Officiant
www.NotaryWeddings.com |
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Pitty Pat
Texas
9 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 1:10:37 PM
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| If a borrowers name is different on different docs how should he sign? Exanple- Stan and Stanley |
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