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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2009 : 3:08:57 PM
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| Vince - good catch, but as I said a few posts down, I introduce myself as a mobile closer when I meet them, I would never use the term otherwise, particularly in v/m. I simply say "I'm calling to introduce myself and confirm an appt for day/time/place." If I get an answer, I introduce myself - "My name is Renee, and I'll be the person coming ..." |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 08:08:29 AM
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... saying "notary public" suggests that someone will be signing a document and you will need copies of appropriate ID.
I don't fully agree with that. I've met so many people that do not understand the role of a Notary Public nor understand what is needed to get a document signed and notarized. In my opinion, it doesn't make any difference what you call yourself in a voice message as long as the purpose of the message is conveyed. Likewise, it doesn't make any difference what you call yourself in a face-to-face encounter as long as the signers understand what your role is and what's expected from them as well as from you. In all my signings, I probably say "signing agent" twice through the whole thing. Normally, I skip titles altogether except for "Loan Officer" and "Broker". Even then, I often just say "whoever you are in contact with".
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 06:41:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Renee
I want the public to know the difference, I want them to know mobile closers exist, and they can then relay that message to whomever they wish.
Renee, this thread had evolved into suggestions on what to say when you either leave a voicemail or are actually talking with the borrower on the initial contact. If you are talking with the borrower, by all means tell them you are a mobile closer or NSA or any other thing that you feel describes what it is that you do - but when it is the original voicemail, a few of us are suggesting that saying "notary public" suggests that someone will be signing a document and you will need copies of appropriate ID. It does not say what kind of document. If you say "mobile closer" that may hint at closing a loan or other financial transaction that many are trying to avoid for privacy purpose. What say you?
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 05:22:32 AM
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My own experience just doesn't agree - I've never had a person not understand the term "mobile closer". I agree, WE are the only ones who use the NSA term, but the only place I use it is in the forums, I don't use it in the 'outside' world.
Yes, the public does know what a Notary Public is - but that's not the whole of what I am when I'm doing mobile closings, and I want the public to know the difference, I want them to know mobile closers exist, and they can then relay that message to whomever they wish.
I liken it to my tax accountant - he's a Notary, too. It's not on his business card, it's not how he refers to himself. He'd never call and say "It's me, your Notary/Tax Accountant". It doesn't make him a BAD notary, doesn't mean he doesn't take that part seriously, it's just another part of the Whole. |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 1:23:28 PM
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| Like Linda, I do say I am a Notary Public. No one recognizes labels such as Signing Agent, Mobile Closer, Remote Closer, etc. Everyone recognizes what a Notary Public is. I also make reference to the company that hired me so the borrowers understand why I am calling and why I have their phone number, address, etc. Works for me! |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 09:53:15 AM
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Vince:
It's as if you had my phone bugged - what you say is what I say - practically word for word!
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 08:46:47 AM
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Continuing the new thread started by Joan...
Perhaps another way to leave a voice mail would be to say: "This call is for _____. I'm confirming the appointment on ______ at ______ and I’m the notary public that will be working with you getting your paper work signed, sealed and submitted. I would appreciate a return call to confirm the appointment and can be reached at (___)______ or my cell phone is (___)______. I would like to take this opportunity to also request that all persons signing the documents have copies of the front of your driver's license and or other state or federal government issued photo ID to send in with the completed documents. I look forward to your confirming call and to meeting you in person.”
Just curious what others think of that approach that combines some of the thoughts of those posting here. Perhaps this old dog could use a new trick. When the person listed on the loan confirms the appointment you can call yourself whatever term works best for you. |
Edited by - vince on 12/14/2009 10:03:37 AM |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 08:01:49 AM
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I agree this should have had it's own thread...
Agree with everything said here except for one thing - I DO identify myself as a Notary - most times the borrowers have been told "we'll send a notary to your house to sign the papers" - by identifying myself as a Notary I'm hopefully letting them know I'm THE notary...
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 07:09:10 AM
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I do basically the same as Renee, never disclosing what the appointment is for, only that I'm confirming an appointment for such 'n such date and time. I precede it with "This call is for so 'n so."
Likewise, I do not identify myself as a Notary Public but a Signing Agent. I don't even say "remote closer" because that states the purpose of the appointment which the borrowers may not want disclosed to prying ears that may listen to the voice message.
I end the message with "please call me at your earliest convenience to verify your information." When they call back, or when I call them again the evening before the appointment, and am able to talk with the borrowers, I ask them to verify their name as shown on their driver's license and the address of the signing. I do not provide this information first, as I want to be reasonable sure that the person I'm talking with is the correct person.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 06:22:56 AM
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? Not seeing how this relates to the conversation, but let me repeat my response to your post of this on N/R:
I don't ever make reference to the nature of the appointment, be it a loan closing or anything else. I can NOT make any determination as to whom I am speaking with over the phone - ingrained privacy training.
I say "I'm calling to introduce myself and confirm the appoint to meet with you on Tuesday at 6:00 (at this address ....). This is also all I'll leave on a v/m, but I then include the name of the person I'm leaving the message for.
Edited to add: I also don't refer to myself as a "Notary Public" when I meet them - I am a mobile closer, which incorporates the need to also be a Notary Public. |
Edited by - Renee on 12/14/2009 06:26:08 AM |
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joanbergst
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 12:00:51 AM
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When I confirm an appointment, the first statement, I make to the borrower(s) is:
Hello "I'm Joan Bergstrom and I am the Notary Public who will be assisting you with your loan document signing on Dec 15th at 6:00pm".
"I want to confirm the appointment with you and give you my cell number 951-522-4919 ( I speak very slowly when giving my cell number)so, if something should change and you need to call me?"
I say: "You need to have current identification such as a drivers license..............etc
Then, I repeat the signing location I was give to make sure the signing location address is correct (no more rental locations for me every again)and tell them I will see them at 6 pm on Tuesday the 15th.
See you Tuesday!
Cheers, Joan
This seems to have worked for me for over 5,000 loans in CA without much confusion but I am always open for suggestions?
Joan Bergstrom
24/7 To Riverside & San Bernardino Counties.
CA State Notary Exam Instructor For www.notaryclasses.com
www.joanbergstromnotarypublic.com
joan.bergstrom@yahoo.com
Cell: 951-522-4919
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 02:51:37 AM
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Why thank you, Mr. Paul What's the hold-back on the .56%?!
Vince - your personal experience with closing on your properties is truly unfortunate all the way around, but I just don't believe they are typical. I've NEVER encountered a title office that scheduled closings in 15 minute intervals, and that is definitely NOT typical. I work for quite a few agents inside their offices and it's the same wherever I go as it always was - the room is for a full hour, even if it's just a cash purchase. Same here with R.E. offices, the rooms are always booked at 1 hour intervals. Back in the late 90's during The Boom, refi's were scheduled at 1/2 hour intervals - now, I almost never am asked to do a refi inside a title office but I do close those inside banks a lot - never had a time constraint for the room (but it's not a 'refi boom' time now, either).
As for the comment from the attorney - I used to have a broad experience working on closings with them (when in wholesale lending, and across the MidWest when/where there used to be a lot of use of the UAW-provided legal svcs)and IME, there was typically a MARKED difference in the expertise of an attorney privately hired who specialized in R.E./title/lending law - and those whose services are provided through benefits contracts or pre-paid services. If I had a dime for every one of the latter who'd call prior to close to 'demand' that I (as the lender) explain WHY the "interest rate on the TIL doesn't even match the Note!"  That's always a fair clue as to expertise ...
Two things make me suspect the expertise of that particular attorney - the fact that he was there in person, and that he shrugged off a question. IME, the attorneys who specialize in this field obtain (demand) an atty's pkg PRIOR to close (almost never attending the closing). They review things not often even AT the table (title commitment, purchase contract, checking public record on their own accord, last deed on record, etc) - and they have little interest in anything at the table beyond the Hud, Note & Mtg. And attorneys at closings NEVER shrug off a question, they LIVE for questions ...but, that's just my own experience. Dimes to donuts it was a question he couldn't answer!
I'm sorry that your own experience was truly disappointing, and I do hope you voiced your opinion about it as a consumer! |
Edited by - Renee on 12/13/2009 02:59:06 AM |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2009 : 06:04:53 AM
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Great post, Renee, and I support everything you say 99 44/100%. I too think the role of a "remote closer", "witness closer", "signing agent", whatever you want to call it, is the primary function that title companies, lenders and signing services look for when they need us. The only requirement** is that this person also be a Notary Public, duly commissioned in the state in which the 'closing' takes place. The ones that learn their trade well, usually stand out in this field. It's unfortunate that more companies, and possibly states, haven't taken on the obligation of ensuring that remote closers are trained. A good title closer is oft trained by the title company they work for. Since training remote closers by a title company that is far, far away is impractical, maybe another organization, like ALTA could step up and take on this task. It certainly would make the industry better. (This is a topic for another discussion.)
You are correct when you said Sue Pense coined the term signing agent when she formed NASA. But the term remote closer has been around long before signing agent was invented. And Notary Signing Agent, and derivatives of that, have never really caught on except within our own ranks, as incessantly advertised by the NNA after buying out NASA. You described the job function to a tee. I certainly answer to almost any of those terms as long as it is understood exactly what my limited role is in the process.
** Many title companies, lenders and some signing services, have additional requirements to be able to work for them. However, there is only one requirement that everybody agrees upon. And that is being a Notary Public.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2009 : 06:03:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Renee
What I would hope is that the conversation puts enough intrigue into what is contained in the loan docs, that the NSA's reading this might sit down and go over them all, at least once. Not a skim, but a dedicated read of each one, with the intent of really learning what these things say. I think that's the least we can do for borrowers - to be familiar with these things.
Renee, if you quit there, we would agree 100%. If nothing else, it would allow the NSA to point out various sections that do answer most direct questions. So much redundancy to these documents it is incredible to me how many times various items are repeated.
What we do not totally agree on is the title of the job description. It is important to know the history of the various terms (as you do), but the job has potentially evolved. Perhaps it is my experience in closing on my own homes in the past that makes me cringe a bit (but happily accept - if we can agree on terms of the assignment) when someone calls for a "mobile closer." My experience as the borrower was that I went to a room where a very rushed, but polite, person put documents in front of me and collected them just as the pen left the paper and re-stacked them as quickly as they could get around the table - to be sealed later by maybe the same person in the room and maybe not. Simply sign here and move on.
As a seller, a lawyer was present for the borrower one time (arranged through his pre-paid legal plan) and the lawyer was asked a question on one of the documents. He responded, "we can go over it later, this room is only scheduled for 15 minutes." So my memory of these "closings" is different. If the borrowers want that kind of a speedy closing, it can be done and it is part of my opening spiel regarding what I'm there for (How quickly would you like to get this done?).
In my mind, a notary signing agent may have flexibility to be "a closer" or may be able to allow the borrower to take a bit more time and understand a bit more of the obligation and commitment they are making. If the borrower is moving too slowly, the obvious mention of the RTC and other "speed up" techniques can still be used to stay on your schedule. The difference in the two terms, in my opinion, is I'm not certain that any of the “closers” knew anything about what was in the documents for the homes I bought (and yes, I signed them anyway). But, I know many persons truly appreciate it when the company sends a knowledgeable person there to assist them if they have a question on this incredibly expensive commitment they are making. So, I like the term "notary signing agent" because an “NSA” offers more than what I was given as a borrower by "the closer." For whatever it's worth, based upon what you've said, I'd like to think of you as being a "Notary Signing Agent." |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2009 : 02:17:45 AM
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I'm thoroughly enjoying the conversation too, Michelle - great fun talking shop with everyone here, and great fun being challenged with ideas that make me use my brain.
What I would hope is that the conversation puts enough intrigue into what is contained in the loan docs, that the NSA's reading this might sit down and go over them all, at least once. Not a skim, but a dedicated read of each one, with the intent of really learning what these things say. I think that's the least we can do for borrowers - to be familiar with these things.
Ken, we differ in our opinions on a couple points (and viva la difference!) I'd have to sit and think a LONG time to be able to recall an L.O. who had much understanding of closing docs - and that's okay, it's not their job. I have but the most meager understanding of 'basis points' and pricing off a par-rate sheet, so we're 'even'. L.O.'s are salespeople and I don't expect them to know what I expect MYSELF to know as a mobile closer.
And there's the 2nd difference of opinion - in my mind, in what I expect of myself, in how I portray my services and in the language I use 'out there' in the real/practical world ... I am a mobile closer. A term that seems to strike fear in the hearts of many - it's what I am, what I am comfortable with, and how I am referred to by my clients. The term Notary Signing Agent was invented BY the NSA industry - I think Susan Pense, but regardless - those in title/settlement & lending, at least here in the Midwest, have always used "mobile closer" or "remote closer" - and I answer in kind. To me, being a Notary Public is purely incidental - a requirement of being a mobile closer. That's not to say I don't take notarizations seriously - it's just that it is incidental to me. I would not be a notary public if I didn't NEED to be in order to be a mobile closer.
You noted that buyers/borrowers aren't familiar with the NSA term - you're right. I don't use it when I speak to them, I am a mobile closer. They DO understand that term. When I introduce myself in the confirmation call, I often get "OH! So you're not just a notary, you'll be able to explain this stuff?" This is a pretty telling comment, and one that doesn't speak all that well of our industry.
I guess it would be pretty clear by now, I'm not a fan of the term "NSA" for all those reasons. I'm not a "Closing Agent", and don't use the term, but the word "Closer" has become so terrifying and I don't get it - why? I have my theories - is it because, if you had to take a person off the street, train them beyond how to hold a notary stamp to the point of BEING a 'mobile closer', it would take (in my experience) a dedicated year, rather than a weekend seminar? If you were the entity doing such 'training', would it behoove you to have them fear the term 'closer'?
The term (as you note, Ken) means different things to different roles. There are title closers & lender's closers, for example - each does different things (and I've been both) - that's because a "closing" is a process, with different steps/parts done by different people. I'm a mobile closer - doing closings (gasp) - just another step/part in the whole process of "closing".
Years ago, in the pre-NNA/NSA days, when a title agent had a file that was closing far away or in another state, they'd find a title agent local to that location and ask them to do a 'courtesy' closing for them. If they had a buyer/borrower that HAD to close after hours or at a remote location, they'd send one of their closers out. This cracked open the door. When the refi boom of the late 90's hit - it was nuts, nobody could close enough of them in a day, there weren't enough closing rooms or hands. All these factors combined into the need and viability for an industry of 'mobile' closers - initially, title closers gone wild I mean gone independent. Then all he77 broke loose when regulations changed and opened the flood gates for interstate lending & internet loan shopping, huge AfBA's and all the SS's.
Perhaps this helps explain why I view myself as a closer, doing mobile closings - and why I don't take warmly to the whole 'just there to witness & stamp' gig - OR the entities that flood the industry with those. Free enterprise & capitalism at it's finest, I guess.
Aside from the fact that I am independent and I am mobile/remote, there is almost nothing different about how I do my job than if I were a w-2 employee and sitting inside the agent's office (and often times, I AM in their office). I strive for that - to eliminate as many differences as logistics and laws allow.
Whew - thanks all, for the Morning Coffee Chat.
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inotarize
Alabama
55 Posts |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 5:33:17 PM
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Lisa: "Now that your here" (song title and play on words) - the best brains are here - totally a compliment - sorry for causing confusion.
Renee: I assure you it's mutual admiration! I have been doing this a long time, I recall a genuine, available, "save the loan officer". And, they did answer the phone "off hours" AND had access to a copy of the complete package AND "knew their stuff".
What I fear is the NSA's skills being called upon to "augment", strike that, "replace the LO" in performing the tasks that should be done by the LO. That was the impression I received from the Title Co. that "would speak" to the LO, and fully supported my actions.
On a practical note, living in New York City, a large part of the signings I do are with "out of state" documents. Thus, most of the docs differ greatly. Those who work locally, in the homes of the borrower, and have mostly the same state's docs have the advantage. I work in hotels with tourists and vacationers and those "on assignment" in NYC. Sure, ultimately the all have the same stuff - but one has to find and select the "best" answer.
It's easy to handle with a "what is my interest rate", but less specific questions require more finesse, and frankly some guesswork. There is also the issue of time. Something most NSA's really don't like to fess up to. "I always give the borrower (at the table) enough time to fully read the entire 187 page loan package if they want to". PO-leese! Nobody can afford to really do that. Our fees "top" at about $200 or so, divide that by the time it would take to read 187 single spaced pages. I might offend some, but I often wonder why on the internet some always appear to be witty, slim, handsome and wise. Once I mentioned "laughing" into the phone when offered 55$ for an edoc over a hundred miles away - with major faxing - and was told off by many that I should have been more polite. "Let the ones without sin cast the first stone".
I see the real issue as a willingness, by some NSA's to take over some of the LO's job to "land the signing assignment" - and that's fine, but not for me. The NSA is "just a notary" with some additional skills. Valuable and good skills for sure - but still, officially "just a notary". The NSA cert is not a governmental certification, most times it is done by passing an "on line" test. The LO (in my original post) clearly did not do the job of properly informing the borrower about the "deal". I do not see my role as "saving the loan" - my watchword is IMPARTIAL - to answer direct questions - but to have no "lead role" in the outcome.
I take some offense to the oft used term "closer" - as to me the connotation is one who cements and makes sure the deal is in place. Of course the technical term is for "closing" the paperwork and being sure all the loose ends are finalized. But the "common" "feeling" for the term is one who "pushes" the deal to completion.
Forgive me, for I ramble too much and will try to learn the wisdom of brevity in future posts.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
Edited by - edelske on 12/11/2009 9:22:38 PM |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 10:40:30 AM
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Ken, et al:
I pulled up a random MI mtg - here is the sentence relative to 'don't pay, don't stay':
"...that failure to cure the default on or before the date specified in the notice may result in acceleration of the sums secured by this Security Instrument and sale of the Property."
And here's my point - while it's easy to understand how a lay-person might be overwhelmed by the whole of the security instrument, WE should have a 'working knowledge' of this document. If you break out the part that is directly addressing a particular question ("Will I lose my house?"), I don't think it is as overwhelming. Legaleze needs to be read word-by-word, each word is intentionally chosen and putting it in 'layman' terms is what atty's do when they offer interpretation/opinion.
What gives the NSA value over the 'just a notary' is knowing what is contained in these documents, and where in the document it is so that it can be pointed out. I'm SO not 'picking' on you either, Ken - you certainly earned my respect long, long ago. Just discussing the topic.
Lisa - I'm not getting the gist of your conversation, I guess. Your examples don't relate any special R.E. Agent 'knowledge'. I guess all I can do is repeat - I don't think having a RE license changes anything an NSA could or should do. |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 09:17:36 AM
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I was not referring to offering opinions regarding my question about how much a R.E. licensed person can say or not say. What I meant was working a little more to help the client answer their own question (when no one else is available)....by, say, giving an illustration and using generalities. If the client asks, "What happens to my house when I don't pay the mortgage?" and no one else is reachable....simply paint a picture so they can use the picture (and their brain) to answer their own question. For example, the answer could be "Ms. Borrower, what happens to ANYTHING when you don't pay the bill? Does the creditor take the thing back or do they send you a box of candy and movie tickets? [being facetious and this is only an illustration] If you don't pay your car payment, does the loan company say, "Oh well!" and let you keep the car or do they come and get it?" "Ms. Borrower, what do YOU think would happen if you don't pay your house payment?"
Kenneth: What does your post mean? I don't know that song.
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Edited by - Lisa T. on 12/11/2009 09:24:29 AM |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 07:55:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa T.
all of the best brains conversing
"Now that your here"
With apologies to the song writer for forgetting their name.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 07:16:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by edelske
The ramifications might be vast, imagine a majority of borrowers being asked if they understood and honestly stating "not at all". Wow, the industry might have to draw the docs in such a way that their clients would be able to understand them - that might be a good thing - and it's also a highly unlikely thing - thus the paradox will probably remain.
Great strides have been made in this paradoxical area. The new HUD (http://tinyurl.com/ydsynwx) and GFE (http://tinyurl.com/ybg4d6f), for example, is much easier to read and understand by a typical lay person. At least it is written with a standard vocabulary and not fraught with legal and technical jargon.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 06:38:05 AM
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Vince,
I have used the same comprehensive notary oath for 8 years. This was the first "no" that I have received. In all probability the vast majority of the borrowers did not "fully understand" what they signed.
However, if the say they did, I feel I did my duty, unless it's very obvious that they are in no condition to sign anything. As an NSA I can not read minds. My oath should make them think. In this case it did and probably saved a woman from making a major mistake.
Let me ask you - do you feel comfortable issuing your stamp, seal and signature if someone did not (by their own words) understand, probably not. You don't know their understanding unless you specifically ask them. You may have doubts about the accuracy of the answer, but unless there are other circumstances (drunk, medication, etc) - it's their statement.
The ramifications might be vast, imagine a majority of borrowers being asked if they understood and honestly stating "not at all". Wow, the industry might have to draw the docs in such a way that their clients would be able to understand them - that might be a good thing - and it's also a highly unlikely thing - thus the paradox will probably remain.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 06:11:24 AM
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The part that concerned me was the concept of her "understanding the documents" as follows:
[quote]Originally posted by edelske
"I really did not understand what I signed and am concerned about losing my house if I am unable to pay".
Perhaps I'm just being argumentative, but here is a test of my concern worded differently. We've probably all had closings where even lawyers have called the loan officer because they do not understand the documents. So, if because of this concern I began "testing" each and every borrower by asking if they fully understood everything that they signed, I would be willing to wager that at least one in ten would say something like, "no" or even "Hell No!"
Granted, this was not a loan with a rescission period, or where she could talk with her loan officer for assurances, but I'd be wanting to make certain the borrower gauged and or balanced the importance of her decision. That said, the borrower completing a refusal form would make me feel more comfortable with her decision.
Breaking her statement down into parts, if she was concerned about losing her house if she was unable to pay, wouldn’t that make her a great borrower and citizen? It is unfortunate that more folks didn’t have that attitude before the bailout became necessary. |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 05:57:52 AM
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I completely agree with Renee. Even an attorney that is doing a closing to which they are not a party to in any way, would still limit what they can and cannot say. Granted, UPL would be out of the question, but there are other ethical and practical limitations as to what would be prudent to say in any given circumstance by anyone not privy to the supporting facts and figures.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 04:51:09 AM
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I don't think having a R.E. license would change a single word that a signing agent can/should say, if they are performing AS a signing agent.
It would seem that having a R.E. license, and performing as a signing agent on a purchase transaction that you were NOT a party to (as a RE Agent) would impose an ethical limit to offering R.E. opinion, as well as the limits imposed by the entity hiring you AS a signing agent.
I am not a R.E. agent, so I am not aware of the constraints that might be contained within the license itself, relative to 'conflict of interest' types of opinions.
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2009 : 6:09:17 PM
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It happened last week. A routine loan package - edoc - my standard fee, docs in time, confirmed with borrower, everything looked good. I arrive and the "middle aged" lady seems professional and proceeds to sign the docs without any questions. Her eyes open a bit wide at the first payment coupon and asks: "That seems to be a lot of money to pay monthly, if I can't pay will I lose my house". Gulp! It's not for me to really answer that somewhat loaded question. I suggest that she speak to her loan officer. Alas, due to the late hour NOBODY is available. So again she asks me. "Sorry, but I cannot give you any comment on your question, as I am a notary, not a loan officer or an attorney." She accepts the fact that I cannot answer her question. I proceed to give her the notary oath. "Do you acknowledge that these are your signatures, that you understood and willfully signed these documents and that the statements are true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief". Reply: "Well, I really did not understand what I signed and am concerned about losing my house if I am unable to pay". THAT DID IT. IMHO the test of "understood" was failed and the notarizations were ON THE SPOT - VOID. Even if (again IMHO) at a later date she said she did understand - the "at the table oath" was negated.
The next day I managed to reach the Title Co. and explained the situation. I said I could not in clear conscience send the docs as the borrower explicitly stated she did not understand what she signed. Title was "on my side" immediately and told me to proceed with shredding the docs!! They would speak to the Loan Officer.....
My full fee was paid to me! Thus, sometimes, "doing the right thing" is the right thing to do. Let's all take the oath as a serious part of the job - it should be stated slowly and clearly - using the most comprehensive format that your state allows. We are paid to be IMPARTIAL public servants, we are NOT representatives of those who send us the checks.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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Time to shred the newly signed loan package
