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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2008 : 02:26:09 AM
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Cripe, Linda - I'm like a dog with a bone all over this, and you're wimping out on me.
Well, when you feel like sinking your teeth into this, you'll run across a lot of stuff that boils down to describing being either an agent OR an independent contractor. Nobody could argue that we're not independent contractors, right?
No debate that we certainly present a liability, and to ALL interested parties - but as an independent contractor.
Further - we don't have the capacity to bind any principle. This would be WHY we never sign the HUD as an agent of TC, never sign any lender doc as an agent of lender, etc.
( another 30 days or so before I'm back to work lol) |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 12:16:29 PM
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"agent n. a person who is authorized to act for another (the agent's principal) through employment, by contract or apparent authority. The importance is that the agent can bind the principal by contract or create liability if he/she causes injury while in the scope of the agency. Who is in agent and what is his/her authority or often difficult and crucial factual issues. (See: agency, authority)"
I agree...and still have no problem with the term "agent"...it's what we are and when we agree to perform a service on their behalf we, IMO, automatically assume responsibility for it...and we CAN cause "injury" or "damage" to the person/entity contracting us if we don't do our job right...which is probably why many make us jump through hoops..
Sorry..just my personal opinion..I have no problem being called a Signing Agent..
Oh..and Renee..if you think I'm reading ALL of that..well .. yeah ... yep... right...:) - it's Sunday, it's pouring outside...I'm curled up on the loveseat watching a movie, reading the boards and online shopping for a new car....even on my best days that link would have my eyes glazing over before I got to the 3rd paragraph!!
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Edited by - LindaH on 04/06/2008 12:21:22 PM |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 11:17:51 AM
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Ah, yes my dear Linda, were it only that simple
Read this - much more indepth: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/agent
I know this 'agent' debate has been going on since the term was first coined. Tough call, I sure agree on that, and always fun to toss back and forth over a cup of coffee! |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 07:11:13 AM
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Definition of "agent"...from Merriam Webster
"1: one that acts or exerts power
2 a: something that produces or is capable of producing an effect : an active or efficient cause b: a chemically, physically, or biologically active principle
3: a means or instrument by which a guiding intelligence achieves a result
4: one who is authorized to act for or in the place of another: as a: a representative, emissary, or official of a government <crown agent> <federal agent> b: one engaged in undercover activities (as espionage) : spy <secret agent> c: a business representative (as of an athlete or entertainer) <a theatrical agent> "
Based on the above definitions, I have no problem with the term "Signing Agent"...we fit into all of the above definitions - read them over and think about what we do in our signings...I believe you'll agree...
MHO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 03:45:20 AM
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I wouldn't put the words "Closing" together with "Agent" anywhere near my name. A "Closing Agent" is defined within the legally binding contract (Closing Instructions) and the insuring Closing Protection Letter, between the Lender, the Settlement/CLOSING AGENT and the insurer. You will see the term "Closing Agent" used on signature lines of documents to be signed for things you do NOT want to be held liable or responsible for. Settlement Agent & CLosing Agent are used interchangably, and are one and the same.
My own take on the "Witness Only" part is that it's another tool used to bolster the 'just a Notary' paradigm, which I do not support as beneficial to our industry or the consumer.
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mamiemk
California
5 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 8:54:46 PM
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I personally like the term 'Witness only Closing Agent'.
Mary Kelly |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 03:37:46 AM
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Please allow me to make my point very clear, so I'm not misunderstood
A "Closing AGENT" is not the same as "closer" or "mobile closer" or "loan closer".
I suspect my personal lack of concern with the generic word "closer" might be due to my past, having been a 'this-kind-of closer' and 'that-kind-of closer', and now I'm just 'another-kind-of closer'.
I do NOT consider myself an AGENT of any kind, though - and yet it's a term we're sort of pushed to use (as Signing Agent), and ironic as it is, that word carries so much risk (if only implied) but originated inside the NSA field.
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 06:20:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joanbergst
We loan signers are also called loan closers.
When we are getting a loan signed and the document wants us to verify the borrower(s) identity and eqires the loan closer to fill out the information or verify the info; they probably mean us.
951-522-4919
Joan Bergstrom
24/7 To Riverside & San Bernardino Counties.
State Notary exam teacher for www.notaryclasses.com
www.joanbergstromnotarypublic.com
joan.bergstrom@yahoo.com
Cell: 951-522-4919
They may call us loan closers but we are NOT loan closers or closing agents. We get the docs signed - that's it..when the ID Verification form calls for the "Closing Agent" to complete and sign the form after examining the original ID (absent a place for the borrower to sign which some of them have) do you not cross out "Closing Agent" and write in "Signing Agent"?? I do..why??...because I'm NOT a Closing Agent - I'm a signing agent.
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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joanbergst
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 8:50:02 PM
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We loan signers are also called loan closers.
When we are getting a loan signed and the document wants us to verify the borrower(s) identity and eqires the loan closer to fill out the information or verify the info; they probably mean us.
951-522-4919
Joan Bergstrom
24/7 To Riverside & San Bernardino Counties.
State Notary exam teacher for www.notaryclasses.com
www.joanbergstromnotarypublic.com
joan.bergstrom@yahoo.com
Cell: 951-522-4919
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n/a
Virginia
5 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 06:46:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
It looks like it is a very involved profession and requires ten times as much commitment as doing solely the notary work.
Now you can see why you often get closing packages with mistakes. We have our own in-house closers/funders. Many companies outsource the entire closing function. You can see how there is a lot of room for data inconsistancy. |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2008 : 8:49:11 PM
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| It looks like it is a very involved profession and requires ten times as much commitment as doing solely the notary work. |
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n/a
Virginia
5 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2008 : 4:47:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
We had a great discussion about defining a "signing agent". However, many people brought up the term, "loan closer", or "closing agent" which is a profession related to escrow that is above and beyond what notaries do. Can someone knowledgeable compare and contrast closing agents with signing agents and go into detail about what their exact responsibilities are? Thanks!!!
I am currently a senior closer with a mid-size lender. I close and fund loans in VA,NC,SC,DC, and MD. i was also a closing manager for a national bank in CA for 5 years. The closing process in my office includes the following:
-keep track and schedule closings on calendar throughout the month and work in conjunction with the underwriting department to make sure files are in my closing department at least 24 hours prior to the closing date. (We like to give the attorneys and title closing offices the document packages at least the day before)
-Verify the loan program and rate lock information with the investor lock confirmation including loan amount, program, pricing (YSP or Discount Points), address, Ficos, LTV, Rate, and lock expiration date
-Confirm the fees with the loan officer/processor
-Verify 1st payment date and correctly calculate Rescission period(some investors do not allow Saturday to be counted)
-On Arm loans verify the current index value, caps, and terms and
-check hazard insurance and flood insurance for correct dates and sufficient coverage
-check appraisal report to confirm address county and zip code as well as property type ( condo, pud, SFR, Manufactured Home) dictates any riders
-review title report for endorsements, effective date, correct lender name, borrower name, current legal, existing loans, judgments, ect
-verify property taxes and due dates for impound accounts
-On North Carolina loans run a APR Rate Spread Test to make sure the loan does not Violate the NC APR tes law(new law for 2008)
-Run another high cost spread sheet on Owner Occupied properties to make sure the loan does not violate HOEPA laws
-Verify that I have all the correct fees that affect APR on the final Truth in Lending disclosure(another worksheet)
-preparation of the loan documents (depending on the investor we use Guardian, Doc Magic, or our in-house system which uses VNP forms)
-email or overnight the loan document package
-calculate the wire amount and verify wire instructions
-Approve the Final HUD-1 prior to closing
-check and sign off Final Loan conditions like: funds to close, final inspection 442 from appraiser, Certificate of Occupancy, FHA/VA documents, payoffs on the HUD-1 ect.
-sometimes perform a final verbal verification of employment
-when everything is good I submit the wire request and fund the loan
I also make corrections after closing when there are errors or documents are missing.
That about sums it up. :) |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 4:20:01 PM
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Signing agents are responsible for getting the loan docs executed properly, notarizing those that need notarizing and returning them to SS/TC/Lender in a timely manner for funding.
The Closing Agent is usually responsible for reviewing title, drafting the documents accordingly, and oversight of the funding process unless there's an escrow agent involved for that purpose. More liability rests with this position. IMO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2008 : 11:32:56 AM
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| We had a great discussion about defining a "signing agent". However, many people brought up the term, "loan closer", or "closing agent" which is a profession related to escrow that is above and beyond what notaries do. Can someone knowledgeable compare and contrast closing agents with signing agents and go into detail about what their exact responsibilities are? Thanks!!! |
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