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betty1957

Illinois
35 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2015 :  06:27:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know, Kenneth, I really enjoy your thoughtful posts, and your solutions are about the best I have heard, but I cannot understand WHY we are doing any business with people who do NOT speak English.
What other country accommodates people in this fashion? Maybe for very pricey properties where they buyer has local representatives who speak for and handle the deals in another language FOR Them.
I would be so afraid of miscommunication, and that I would be verifying paperwork without fully understanding if the borrower's intent. I see this as a recipe for trouble.
Unless you speak fluent Spanish, I say don't handle one of these.

betty j. dedman
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Dannotary

California
265 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2014 :  12:38:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dannotary's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sorry Bobbi, Mexican IS Spanish, accents are different from country to country but it is all Spanish no matter where you come from in Latin America or Spain, there are NOT different dialects however, different accents, yes, different idioms, and some words for some things, but we are all usually understood by one another for the most part.
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Dannotary

California
265 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2014 :  12:32:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dannotary's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am also Spanish speaking. If the signer didn't read or write, speak English I would not notarize that POA. I would not translate it and take that liability, nor could I and also act in capacity of notary. I would tell them to get the POA done in Spanish and then I would notarize it AFTER I meet with the signer in private and see if they are willing, not being coerced, and could converse with me about the document in Spanish, then and document all that in my journal. I also think that in Ca. an ombudsman would have to be present for signing a POA because they were in an institution or elderly.
As for Spanish being different in different countries- some words and expressions/idioms are different but legal Spanish is not going to be very different. Also to consider is that many people are not literate in their own language and are really not going to understand the legal terms even in their own language.
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BobbiCT

Connecticut
135 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2013 :  05:11:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit BobbiCT's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Son-In-Law (SIL) wants mom in hospital to sign 3 POAs. Mom speaks very little English, I speak very little Spanish (her language) - the POAs are in English. She does have proper ID.

You don't want to do this; although we all want to help. Suggest the son-in-law try the consulate or web for a Notary Public FLUENT in Spanish and English. These will be problem Powers of Attorney and need a "Spanish pro" who can take any heat and stand up to controversy. I assume these were not drawn up by an attorney. Also, Legal Aid may have an attorney willing to help pro bono. The Legal Aid offices I know of all have Spanish, Mexican and many other foreign language speaking staff or contacts just for such situations.

1. Any family member (what about daughter?) may contest the PoA. Mom probably can't read English and no way of knowing for sure that this is what she wants and that she is comfortable with PoA and the possible UNLIMITED POWER she is giving to a son-in-law, not a blood relative.

2. Son-in-law goes to mom's bank to use it. Bank tellers and CSR KNOW that mom barely speaks English. Branch manager refuses to accept PoA because of the liability to the bank because in their minds do NOT KNOW if mom knew what she was signing and authorizing son-in-law to do.

Unless there is a notary public who wants to take the HEAT when this document is contested, who is fluent in Spanish and comfortabl ewith the notarization and mom's condition enough to stand up and swear multiple times that mom KNEW what she was signing even though she probably can't read much English, spoke little English, and was hospitalized at the time (effects of medication on her competency?) without the notary EXPLAINING the PoA to her, options are:

1. If son-in-law didn't use an attorney who was also fluent in Spanish, son-in-law could contact a Legal Aid attorney if mom or son qualify for assitance. Hospital can recommend where to call.

2. Have the Power of Attorney in Spanish with English notarization; mom should be able to read and understand, then son-in-law can have it translated to English. This is MY choice.

An FYI, I have a friend who got very upset one day when someone turned to her and said," You know what he said. You speak Spanish." Her answer: "I speak Spanish, not Mexican!" There are different dialects that need to be taken into consideration when attempting to translate a document - particularly a legal document that gives a great deal of power to one individual.

Bobbi in CT

Edited by - BobbiCT on 10/28/2013 05:12:21 AM
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edelske

New York
813 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2013 :  1:41:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit edelske's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thus the translator makes no specific statement and I add to my notary wording that you mentioned. But how can I notarize the signature of the translator if they made no specific statement? Unanswered - where on the POA does the translator sign? If they simply add "I translated....." they are not supporting their training and skills as they would if they used their letterhead which (at least in NY) shows training completed and affiliations.

Also, your suggested certification by me puts ME in the position of "accepting and authorizing" the translator. Down the road someone may ask "How and why did you select/approve the translator" I see a big liability window opening, way more than what a NY notary is supposed to do.

Bottom line for me - gonna pass on this one - too many landmines in the path and only a small cupcake at the other end.

BTW: NY does not allow a translator "between" the affiant and the notary. My Spanish skills are marginal - not up to this task at all.

Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com

Edited by - edelske on 10/27/2013 9:06:27 PM
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LindaH

Florida
1754 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2013 :  1:10:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Florida statutes provide guidance for us - if a translator is used, we should note the translator in our cert and our journal. Page 37 of our Manual:

"For a person who does not speak English

117.107(6), Fla. Stat.

The nature and effect of the document must be translated into a language that the person does understand. The law does not specify that a written translation is required; therefore, an oral translation is sufficient.

You may wish to add a statement in your notarial certificate that you have complied with this requirement of the law: "I further certify that the nature and effect of the document was translated for (name of signer) by (name of translator) prior to notarization."

You may also want the translator to sign the document and your journal."

http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/notary/ref_manual23-40.pdf

Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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edelske

New York
813 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2013 :  07:20:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit edelske's Homepage  Reply with Quote
POAs do not have a place for translator to make a statement as to the understanding of the principal nor is there a place for the translator to sign. Add a separate statement by the translator? If so, who would be drafting that document? We have a good idea what it should say but assisting in creating its content falls into Unauthorized Practice of Law. Do I need to add an attorney to the party and be bedside?

If we get past that hurdle would anyone accept such a combined document?

Ugggh - perhaps there is no solution.

Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com
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LindaH

Florida
1754 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2013 :  06:41:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm going to go with a combination of B and C - have a certified translator, in your presence and in the presence of witnesses, translate and read the document to her and affirm her understanding - read one paragraph in English as written, then translate that into Spanish, then Mom affirms it

You notarize the translator and then the Mom's signature with your cert in English

In no way and under no circumstances would I ever use any form of A.

JMO

Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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edelske

New York
813 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2013 :  5:20:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit edelske's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't have a good solution for the problem I am about to describe. I have some "not so good" thoughts. So, I hope someone can solve this one for me.

Situation:
Son-In-Law (SIL) wants mom in hospital to sign 3 POAs. Mom speaks very little English, I speak very little Spanish (her language) - the POAs are in English. She does have proper ID.

Possible Solutions:

A) Allow SIL to read POA to mom, translating from English to Spanish. SIL would be both the translator and the receiver of the authority. Then I communicate best as can to oath mom.

B) Have POA translated to Spanish by licensed translator, it is the signature of the translator that is notarized on the Spanish Translation. Have mom sign the Spanish version(s) after reading them, then I notarize as above. Then the notarized (by me) version(s) are again translated to English (again translator is notarized. Staple both together and hope it's useful.

C) Have a Spanish speaking notary read the POA to mom, translating to Spanish. Same notary oaths and notarizes document.

D) YOUR SOLUTION


Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com
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