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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2013 : 7:41:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by middleVT
I attended a notary forum put on by the Vermont Secretary of State this year; the presenter was an attorney and former Deputy Secretary of State; he wrote the state's notary manual. He said notaries should ask to see power of attorney documents and other proof of capacity, such as appropriate paperwork for corporate officers. However, the forum only lasted an hour, so there was no time to clarify if this was a duty or just good practice. In Vermont, the POA has to be recorded along with the deed, so it is apt to be present in the package anyway, I imagine. I have not had to participate in a POA signing as a notary, although I did have my lawyer sell a condo I used to own using a POA from me.
<i>middleVT</i>
<<<underlining added by me>>>
Sounds very odd to me. We are not qualified to determine anything about a POA, we are just supposed to "pick it up".
As to the proof of capacity - 1) I am not qualified to judge its merits as I am not an attorney. 2) Something shown to me could have been nullified by something NOT shown to me.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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asomerford
North Carolina
18 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2012 : 11:54:23 AM
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I recently had two experiences with POAs. The first involved a husband whose wife was handicapped and unable to sign. The signing company did not advise me that a POA was to be used and the documents did not have the usual POA wording. I called the signing company who had me call the lender who then connected me to the signing company again. This involved many minutes on my cell phone with the speaker on so that the borrower could contribute to the discussion. Finally, the signing company and the lender got into a spitting contest as which was at fault. I, of course, was ready to leave and call it off. The borrowers were going out of town and needed to get the loan closed. In the end the documents had to be redrawn and the closing was rescheduled for later the same day. When I received the payment, my fee was reduced by $30 for the first visit. I objected, but the lame excuse was that their fee was reduced. The second occured last week. When I confirmed the appointment with the borrower, he told me he would be using a POA. On the day of the closing, the documents arrived without the POA verbiage. I called the signing company who confirmed with Title that this it was okay to proceed with the closing and it was not necessary to collect the original POA. I also followed up with an email regarding this situation. I prepared a word doc with the POA verbiage for the signer. Today I was copied with an email to the attorney asking why the original POA was not collected. I can only hope that I won't be penalized for this one. |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2012 : 12:43:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by middleVT
In my state, there is no required wording for acknowledgements, but a typical POA certificate would read something like:
On this __ day of ____, 20__, before me personally appeared Mickey Mouse to me known to be the person who executed the foregoing instrument, and he thereupon duly acknowledged to me that he executed the same as his free act and deed, and the free act and deed of Minnie Mouse.
middleVT
Above RED added by me.
I see what you are doing, and I would not feel comfortable doing it that way. It's fine for Mickey to state he represents the "free act and deed of Minnie" - that is HIS statement (and your wording clearly has it as such). However YOU are in the position of saying "he said...." and I would not feel comfortable going there. I limit myself (per NY State guidelines) to notarize the signature of the person I give the oath to - Nothing More.
The Affiant can make and sign any statement, and I notarize THAT. I am always on the lookout for "extra" wording in the notary section. It is often added by attorneys looking to have MY "office" add credibility to the document. eg:
Before me appeared Minnie Mouse, rightful heir to the Mickey Mouse Cheese Trust.
And similar "additions" to a routine notary statement.
HEADS UP - Read that notary section - word for word - before you sign it. Redact / add to make it "correct".
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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middleVT
Afghanistan
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2012 : 09:10:16 AM
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In my state, there is no required wording for acknowledgements, but a typical POA certificate would read something like:
On this __ day of ____, 20__, before me personally appeared Mickey Mouse to me known to be the person who executed the foregoing instrument, and he thereupon duly acknowledged to me that he executed the same as his free act and deed, and the free act and deed of Minnie Mouse.
middleVT |
Edited by - middleVT on 10/18/2012 09:10:59 AM |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2012 : 5:50:46 PM
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It's not an issue in NY. We notarize the name of the human in front of us who signs the document - nothing more. When "Minnie Mouse by Mickey Mouse as attorney in fact" is on the signature line; it's Mickey Mouse whose name is in the notary section. The POA (or a photocopy) has always been sent to me on POA jobs. But IMHO I don't think it's relevant to my notary activities.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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notaryslife
California
348 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2012 : 08:27:25 AM
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We're not authorized to see the POA in California however some notaries may get confused when the signing company tells them to make sure to get the original POA at the signing that needs to be filed with a recorded document.
Sincerely yours,
Notary's Life |
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middleVT
Afghanistan
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2012 : 07:21:59 AM
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I attended a notary forum put on by the Vermont Secretary of State this year; the presenter was an attorney and former Deputy Secretary of State; he wrote the state's notary manual. He said notaries should ask to see power of attorney documents and other proof of capacity, such as appropriate paperwork for corporate officers. However, the forum only lasted an hour, so there was no time to clarify if this was a duty or just good practice. In Vermont, the POA has to be recorded along with the deed, so it is apt to be present in the package anyway, I imagine. I have not had to participate in a POA signing as a notary, although I did have my lawyer sell a condo I used to own using a POA from me.
<i>middleVT</i> |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2012 : 07:41:33 AM
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In FL we're not authorized to see the POA - we have to take the signer's word for it that they have the authority. Do I like that? No. But it is what it is...I think the legislature's feeling is if they authorize us to see the POA, then we're on the hook for determining if the POA is valid, if it applies to the transaction at hand, or a multitude of other issues that would cross the line into UPL.
Linda
http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2012 : 02:24:15 AM
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Let's say that a signer is signing in their capacity as an attorney in fact. Is it the notary's duty to ask the attorney in fact to show a copy of their power of attorney granting them the right to sign certain types of documents?
The notary is not authorized or trained to even understand a power of attorney. Also, in some states, a notary can not notarize or certify capacity, but only names / signatures.
Whether the attorney in fact signature is honored by whomever the document is submitted to is really what matters, and not what the notary requests -- in my limited opinion.
What do you think?
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Should the notary request the POA during a signing
