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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
 Posted - 07/23/2010 : 06:25:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
My response to LINDAH's commentary.
The whole point of the precautions in the confirmation call is to avoid the unconforable and time-wasting situation of the notary arriving at a signing where there is a problem. If there is a problem that can be detected by phone, you are saving yourself gas, toner, time, grief. You can avoid the whole signing altogether, have them redraw, and go out when the signers are ready and the docs are in order.
Its just a question of whether you want to do things the easy / smart way, or the hard way. Honestly when I was a notary, I did things the hard way. I didn't do my homework enough. Thats why I'm training you guys the right way so you can have an easier life than I did.
I agree - troubleshoot the signing in advance as much as you can to avoid problems at the table that clearly could be avoided with advance information. However, I stand by what I said...we need to be very careful what we discuss on the phone, and discussing loan terms (a) is not our job; and (b) is dangerous. The farthest I'll go during the confirmation call as to loan terms is asking the borrowers' expectations - do they expect to get money out, pay money in or break even? So, when the final HUD comes in I know if we have a problem or not.
Problems at the table are the nature of the beast and they're going to happen no matter how hard we try to avoid them. The key is not making problems or causing issues before we even get to the table.
MHO
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 05:26:46 AM
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I'm in agreement with the other posters on this thread. With the exception of #5 on the list, I think all those things are a good way to kill your chances of continuing to work in this business.
I know that some notaries go over the spelling of names on the ID when they make their confirmation call, but I don't do that because I rarely have the docs when I make my confirmation call. When I make my call, I confirm the date, time, and address of the appointment. I also inform the borrower that I will need to collect copies of their ID and ask them to make those ahead of time and have them ready for me. Any ID issues can generally be resolved to my satisfaction at the appointment (for example, I will ask to see a passport or military ID if necessary), however I am in a state that allows more notary discretion than other states do. I know that some states, such as CA where Jeremy is located, have extremely specific and strict ID requirements, so that issue may need to be addressed over the phone.
If a borrower is unwilling to sign, or if a spouse is not on board with the loan, or if the loan terms are not what they were expecting, I am probably not going to find that out until I am at the appointment. Would it have saved me time if I had screened for that over the phone? Yes, but as others have said, it is not the notary's place to screen for this and it could likely and unnecessarily kill the deal. Problems with unwilling signers happen rarely enough that it is just not worth it to tick off every hiring party by getting into this kind of thing on each confirmation call.
If a deal falls apart at the table, that's just part of this business, unfortunately. Most companies will at least pay a print and trip fee if this happens, and great companies will pay full fee. Some notaries address this issue with the hiring party upon acceptance of each job. If I find that a particular company seems to continually have borrowers who are uncomfortable signing docs or other problems with their docs, then I simply stop accepting their appointments.
I also agree with the others that we need to be extremely careful about disclosing private information over the phone.
CopperheadVA
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 05:02:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
My response to LINDAH's commentary.
Its just a question of whether you want to do things the easy / smart way, or the hard way. Honestly when I was a notary, I did things the hard way. I didn't do my homework enough. Thats why I'm training you guys the right way so you can have an easier life than I did.
As I and others have pointed out, what you're advocating is not necessarily the "right way". It may be your way, but that doesn't make it the "right way".
Doing things that are easier just because we want to take the easier road is not justification for not doing things the proper way. We are charged with protecting the borrower's information and not divulging any personal or identifiable information to anyone, except the person we have positively identified to be the person named in the document. That means that the terms and conditions of the loan, as well as other information can only be exposed after we identify the person and assure that the person we meet is the person described in the documents.
As Renee said, considering your position in our community, it is paramount that you provide accurate, logical and acceptable information.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
Edited by - PWinFL on 07/23/2010 05:03:23 AM |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 04:20:47 AM
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Jeremy, this isn't debatable information - it is Federal law that you're 'training' people to breach. Considering your position in this community, I think all of us who had previously responded are feeling rightfully concerned.
For the sake of posterity, I'm adding to this thread:
From the GLBA, emphasis added by me:
SEC. 502. OBLIGATIONS WITH RESPECT TO DISCLOSURES OF PERSONAL INFORMATION.
(a) NOTICE REQUIREMENTS.--Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, a financial institution may not, directly or through any affiliate, disclose to a nonaffiliated third party any nonpublic personal information, unless such financial institution provides or has provided to the consumer a notice that complies with section 503.
(b) OPT OUT.--
(1) IN GENERAL.--A financial institution may not disclose nonpublic personal information to a nonaffiliated third party unless--
(A) such financial institution clearly and conspicuously discloses to the consumer, in writing or in electronic form or other form permitted by the regulations prescribed under section 504, that such information may be disclosed to such third party;
(B) the consumer is given the opportunity, before the time that such information is initially disclosed, to direct that such information not be disclosed to such third party; and
(C) the consumer is given an explanation of how the consumer can exercise that nondisclosure option.
(2) EXCEPTION.--This subsection shall not prevent a financial institution from providing nonpublic personal information to a nonaffiliated third party to perform services for or functions on behalf of the financial institution, including marketing of the financial institution's own products or services, or financial products or services offered pursuant to joint agreements between two or more financial institutions that comply with the requirements imposed by the regulations prescribed under section 504, if the financial institution fully discloses the providing of such information and enters into a contractual agreement with the third party that requires the third party to maintain the confidentiality of such information.
Further - the new(ish) RESPA regulations have placed a duty upon the lenders to provide the final HUD prior to close. Additionally, the revised HUD1 includes a description of the final loan terms. The effects of this have hugely curtailed issues of the past.
Additionally & sadly, Linda is absolutely correct in her concerns that NSA's practicing some of the things you are 'training' them to do is harming our collective reputations & causing clients to initiate directives to NOT CONTACT their borrower prior to close. |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 10:49:02 PM
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My response to LINDAH's commentary.
The whole point of the precautions in the confirmation call is to avoid the unconforable and time-wasting situation of the notary arriving at a signing where there is a problem. If there is a problem that can be detected by phone, you are saving yourself gas, toner, time, grief. You can avoid the whole signing altogether, have them redraw, and go out when the signers are ready and the docs are in order.
Its just a question of whether you want to do things the easy / smart way, or the hard way. Honestly when I was a notary, I did things the hard way. I didn't do my homework enough. Thats why I'm training you guys the right way so you can have an easier life than I did.
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 07:57:40 AM
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(1) Make sure that the borrowers are ready to sign.
When you call the borrowers up, make sure they really want to sign their loan. Many borrowers will make an appointment that they are not whole-hearted about. Other times, one spouse will want the loan while the other has not had time to think about it. Double check that all signers really want to sign. As to this I think this goes beyond our role in the process. Not our job to find out if they're READY or if they REALLY WANT to sign...just that all signers will be available at the appointed time and have an hour or so to spend at the table. It's during this conversation that reluctance normally comes out, at which time I refer them to their LO and let title/hiring party know there may be a problem.
(2) Go over the facts and figures in the loan over the phone.
Quote them the rate, APR, loan amount, montly payment amounts, payoffs in the HUD, and prepayment penalties. Lenders are often evasive or tricky and will misinform a borrower, only for them to find out at the last minute when they are under pressure what the actual numbers are. Also, numbers can be switched right before the signing, and this is common. This is just too ridiculous to even comment on and I'm surprised you said this, Jeremy. These kind of antics, practices and procedures are precisely why some companies don't trust us enough any more to let us contact borrowers in advance - too many notaries have killed too many deals by talking too much and not knowing what they're talking about. In addition to Paul and Renee's spot-on comments, I add that this is not our job - it's the LO's job...
(3) Go over the spelling of their names on the documents. Let them know that they have to sign as the name is typed, otherwise the signing should be cancelled. Sometimes you can initial and sign a different way, but those signings usually end up in redraws and are complicated for the notary to bill. Do it right the first time. I'd suggest an in-depth discussion about name discrepancies as it can probably be worked out without cancellation and risking loss of rate lock.
(4) Go over how long they want to sign and read documents.
Explain to the borrower that you have many signings that day and can allow them a certain amount of time. Ask if thats enough for them. If you are being paid well, you might allow a bit extra time for them. Let them know they have three days to read borrower's copies and to cancel if they have any reservations about the loan. Agree, except IMO it's unacceptable to use the "you have three days" line to convince them to sign or to move along..
(5) Let them know approximately when you will be arriving and how long you are able to spend there.
(6) Go over what types of ID's they have and the names on their ID's. Make sure that matches the name variations on the documents otherwise you will need to bring in credible witnesses if your state allows that - I do the ID thing first, find out names on ID first and make sure ID is current and stress I'll need a copy of it...also keep in mind many lenders will not allows CW's - this may need to be pre-approved by title and lender.
My thoughts...for what they're worth.
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 07:41:09 AM
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| When confirming a signing, I say very little on the phone and particularly on voice mail. If leaving a VM, I say my name that I'm a Notary Public and we have an appointment set for X date at X time, to please call me at <cell #> to confirm. If it's a live person I reach when calling, I basically say the same thing, then verify address and say what copies I'll need of which items to return with the docs. |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 06:30:57 AM
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ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DIVULGE PRIVATE INFORMATION TO ANYONE OVER THE PHONE! Do not leave private information on anyone's v/m, either. You NEVER know who you are providing someone's private information too until you are face-to-face & have verified their identity.
Bear in mind, in addition to all the common sense of this protocol as well as the applications of the GLBA, that YOU do not have a client-relationship with the buyer/borrower, either. (Unless they called you directly & hired you directly).
And yes, I have seen lawsuits as a direct result (when I worked inside lending), particularly in instances where one spouse is secretly preparing for divorce, and in purchase transactions where parties pretend to be other parties for information gathering.
Never underestimate the skills of a devious mind - good liars are 'good' because they're able to go undetected by most other people! |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 06:13:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jbelmont
(2) Go over the facts and figures in the loan over the phone.
Quote them the rate, APR, loan amount, montly payment amounts, payoffs in the HUD, and prepayment penalties. Lenders are often evasive or tricky and will misinform a borrower, only for them to find out at the last minute when they are under pressure what the actual numbers are. Also, numbers can be switched right before the signing, and this is common.
Under advisement of my attorney NEVER, NEVER, NEVER go over the terms of the loan with anyone over the phone. You cannot be assured to whom you are talking. You must verify the identity of the person and ensure that the person you identified is the one named in the documents BEFORE you go over any information.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2010 : 12:26:00 AM
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Many notaries don't know how important it is to confirm a signing, and how to confirm a signing the right way. Signings get cancelled at the last minute, and signers are often misinformed about the numbers in their loan, so call them up and make sure everything is okay BEFORE you get in your car.
(1) Make sure that the borrowers are ready to sign.
When you call the borrowers up, make sure they really want to sign their loan. Many borrowers will make an appointment that they are not whole-hearted about. Other times, one spouse will want the loan while the other has not had time to think about it. Double check that all signers really want to sign.
(2) Go over the facts and figures in the loan over the phone.
Quote them the rate, APR, loan amount, montly payment amounts, payoffs in the HUD, and prepayment penalties. Lenders are often evasive or tricky and will misinform a borrower, only for them to find out at the last minute when they are under pressure what the actual numbers are. Also, numbers can be switched right before the signing, and this is common.
(3) Go over the spelling of their names on the documents. Let them know that they have to sign as the name is typed, otherwise the signing should be cancelled. Sometimes you can initial and sign a different way, but those signings usually end up in redraws and are complicated for the notary to bill. Do it right the first time.
(4) Go over how long they want to sign and read documents.
Explain to the borrower that you have many signings that day and can allow them a certain amount of time. Ask if thats enough for them. If you are being paid well, you might allow a bit extra time for them. Let them know they have three days to read borrower's copies and to cancel if they have any reservations about the loan.
(5) Let them know approximately when you will be arriving and how long you are able to spend there.
(6) Go over what types of ID's they have and the names on their ID's. Make sure that matches the name variations on the documents otherwise you will need to bring in credible witnesses if your state allows that.
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Confirming the signing
