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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
 Posted - 08/21/2010 : 3:51:59 PM
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Interesting. Ultimately, I suppose it boils down to what the lender will accept (or not). Argument about the right and wrong of it seems a topic for attorneys and others with a dog in the fight. I was simply struck by the unusual (if not fond memory of the) practice of signing in such a manner and wondering if anyone else had run across a similar situation.
The deal closed. Which tells me the lender accepted the documents.
Thanks for all the interesting input.
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
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Maple
51 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 12:43:52 PM
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Shannon,
Sorry I didn't spot your post at first. The section of the Uniform Commercial Code has been adopted as California Commercial Code section 3401, and may be read at
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=com&group=03001-04000&file=3401-3420
This is part of the negotiable instruments section, and negotiable instruments are not usually notarized.
There is another section, 1201, which you can read here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=com&group=01001-02000&file=1201-1206
It is in the General Provisions Division and the General Definitions and Principles of Interpretation Chapter. It reads, in part,
"(37) "Signed" includes using any symbol executed or adopted with
present intention to adopt or accept a writing."
Many laws outside the notary law can affect how notarizations are done, and that includes the definition of a signature.
quote:
Originally posted by Shannon
I have no idea where this "uniform" code information came from but I don't recognize it as having anything to do with California Notary law. Having just completed recommission with the NNA, they certainly had nothing to say resembling this language...where did you find this? Please cite your source.
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n/a
Illinois
19 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 11:57:03 AM
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".....when women would sign "Mrs. John Q. Public"
Perhaps you were watching old b/w movies of the rich and/or royalty having posh dinner parties, and saw a couple coming to the entrance of a grand ballroom and a butler introduced the couple as "Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public"?
As if woman 'back in the old days' didn't have any individuality or identity!
...geez, what is this Y generation being taught!
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FlaNotary
Florida
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 12:18:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PWinFL
I submit by the early '1900's, one would be hard pressed to find a woman signing her name "Mrs. John ...." (This is not to say that the married woman wouldn't be introduced or addressed as "Mrs. John ....") That's just my opinion.
I have done extensive - and I mean, extremely extensive - genealogical research, and I have come across dozens of vital records where women sign their name "Mrs. John...". And these are records from the 1940's and onwards.
Maybe in your neck of the woods, you would be "hard pressed" to find this during the 1900s, but I know for a fact that it was still a common practice in the mid 20th century.
Robert T. Koehler
Notary Public for the State of Florida
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of Florida in the Bahamas
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of New Hampshire
Certified Loan Signing Agent
AAWO Accredited Wedding Officiant
www.NotaryWeddings.com |
Edited by - FlaNotary on 08/16/2010 12:23:54 PM |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 12:02:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by FlaNotary
Reminds me of the old days when women would sign "Mrs. John Q. Public". It's funny how that is now so uncommon. I don't really see why the borrower was making a fuss over it... it's absolutely silly, and somewhat pretentious to "style" yourself anything.
"Old days"??? I started in this business before you were a twinkle in your father's eye. And I don't ever remember seeing any financial or legal document signed "Mrs. John ......". Since the mid 1800's, immensely due to the woman's movement, ladies more and more used their own names. I submit by the early '1900's, one would be hard pressed to find a woman signing her name "Mrs. John ...." (This is not to say that the married woman wouldn't be introduced or addressed as "Mrs. John ....") That's just my opinion.
As for it being silly, maybe to you, but obviously not to the borrower. Certainly not pretentious as she is not making claim to or creating an appearance of undeserved importance or distinction.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
Edited by - PWinFL on 08/16/2010 12:03:12 PM |
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FlaNotary
Florida
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 11:28:00 AM
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Reminds me of the old days when women would sign "Mrs. John Q. Public". It's funny how that is now so uncommon. I don't really see why the borrower was making a fuss over it... it's absolutely silly, and somewhat pretentious to "style" yourself anything. It would be like me signing "Mr." before my name, or a judge signing "The Honorable" before his name.
It's OK for others to refer to me as Mr. Koehler, but for me to sign my name as Mr. Koehler, is a little ridiculous.
Robert T. Koehler
Notary Public for the State of Florida
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of Florida in the Bahamas
Commissioner of Deeds for the State of New Hampshire
Certified Loan Signing Agent
AAWO Accredited Wedding Officiant
www.NotaryWeddings.com |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 10:51:52 AM
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I have no idea where this "uniform" code information came from but I don't recognize it as having anything to do with California Notary law. Having just completed recommission with the NNA, they certainly had nothing to say resembling this language...where did you find this? Please cite your source.
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
Edited by - Shannon on 08/16/2010 10:52:37 AM |
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Maple
51 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2010 : 11:45:10 AM
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The Uniform Commercial Code at section 3-401 (b) says "A signature may be made (i) manually or by means of a device or machine, and (ii) by the use of any name, including a trade or assumed name, or by a word, mark, or symbol executed or adopted by a person with present intention to authenticate a writing."
Granted, the Uniform Commercial Code might not apply to all the documents we are asked to notarize. But it applies to enough that we shouldn't use the term "legal signature" to mean a persons usual and customary signature. The usual and customary signature is certainly easier to verify than an unusual signature the signer decided to use only for a particular document, but that doesn't make an unusual signature illegal.
There are many valid reasons the signature might look different on a document than the signers usual and customary signature, or the signature on the ID. These reasons could include (1) the signer's whim, (2) the need to sign a full name instead of a nickname, (3) the use of an electronic pen on the document, (4) the use of an electronic pen while signing the driver license, or (5) the usual writing hand is injured. |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
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crtowles
California
553 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 09:07:28 AM
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Always when in doubt ask the hiring party!!!! This is always your best option. I know some of you feel that it my look like lack of experience to them. But I assure you they will appreciate this as it saves them allot of time.
Carmen |
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crtowles
California
553 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2010 : 09:02:15 AM
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I dont think that it will cause a problem. As Paul pointed out if she signs as printed there would be no problem the addition of the 'Mrs'. One thing that I will add is that I have many borrowers who refuse to sign as typed. They always insist that that is not there legal signature (you know the ones that have some scribbly unreadable sig) But I have found in my many years of signing not to stress myself out over this. Because as long as their signature matches their ID it doesn't seem to be a problem. Never had one come back yet. This is why when I conform a loan with the borrowers I always ask for a copy of their DL (whether the lender/title asks for it or not) so that if they are one of "those" people that want to give me a hard time. I already have it in the package and put a note to the fat that this is their legal signature. Plus it saves them time as well if they forgot to ask me to get it for them.
Carmen |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 10:16:09 PM
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Thanks guys...
Escrow never called me back...
This one is really bugging me...
Paul, I totally get the whole lender will accept what they will accept thing...like you, long experience...
I hope you guys are seeing booming business...mine has blasted off again since April 1 and May was good, June even better...I'm hoping this trend continues...
Knock wood!
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 4:47:03 PM
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| Agree with Paul, entirely up to the lender - but it should be okay. "Mrs" is a social distinction, not part of a "name". Similar to professional, religious and military titles (Dr., or Father, or Corporal, etc). |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 10:12:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shannon
Because the addition of the "Mrs." title did not alter her name, but rather only denoted her marital status, my question is this:
Will the lender accept her signed documents?
Shannon ... Only the lender knows.
How someone signs the documents is up to the signer. As long as you informed her to sign "exactly" as her name appears beneath the signature line, there's nothing else you can do.
The only one that can answer your question, is the lender. Quite often signers don't sign exactly as their names appear, and lenders often accept them as signed. Some anal retentive lenders may make a fuss over the "Mrs" and others won't.
Good luck.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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Shannon
California
360 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 09:34:20 AM
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I ran across a situation with an elderly woman yesterday and wanted to hear the concensus on this...
Her name was (fictitious):
Susan B. Smith
The docs were drawn:
Susan B. Smith
Her Identification supported:
Susan B. Smith
She insisted upon signing:
Mrs. Susan B. Smith
Because the addition of the "Mrs." title did not alter her name, but rather only denoted her marital status, my question is this:
Will the lender accept her signed documents?
"A Quick Note"
www.aquicknote.net
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aquicknote |
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"Mrs."
