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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2009 : 08:32:14 AM
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Many companies that offer a "pay scale" do so with a level that is not suitable for providing a professional service designed to keep an independent contractor properly compensated. It nearly seems that they were in competition with each other as to how low they could go and still get people to accept fees that would not even cover the actual costs associated with being a mobile notary.
Many of the companies will allow a pen and ink and initialed correction of what you will charge for the various listed services. You would need to make a business decision about how low your fees should be allowed to go and the circumstances that will allow you to accept them.
My business model requires me to charge a fee that allows me and my business to exist. Years ago the NNA had published minimum fees that were designed for a notary signing agent during “the training phase.” Those fee levels would not come close to supporting my business in today’s market. But, calls are still being made asking folks to accept these levels and even lower at times.
As costs have gone up, fees need to be increased with the companies that decide to continue to use the services offered. Yes, the work level may drop a bit, but overall income may increase and properly reflect a small increase in net income over expenses. Fee increases may be phased in over time with the companies you serve, rather than risking everything coming to a halt. For instance, an increase on an annual anniversary date of your first signing with a company. The one thing that is truly satisfying is accepting work at busy end of month and not wondering why you are having to turn down reasonable offers because of being too busy on barely profitable work. |
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bones67
Washington
30 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2009 : 03:30:00 AM
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I have worked for Nations Direct out of CA for 2 years+. I would like other notaries feed back on there payscale.
thanks.
bones
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kandy1099
Pennsylvania
121 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 8:13:56 PM
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I sort-of don't mind the reviews, sort-of... I always go over and beyond for closings, sometimes late at night or very early in the morning. I feel confident in myself, that I don't have anything to worry about, and of course all positive reviews only help me get more work.
With that said, I VERY much appreciate that the notary's side will be fully listen to FIRST, I know myself, I had to have emergency surgery a couple of weeks ago, went to the hospital 2o'clock in the morning, to find out I needed surgery right away, thank-goodness for Blackberry Phones, because I was able to access my email from the ER and had to cancel on a purchase closing that was schedule for the next morning. That client understand and was nice about it but her/she could have gotten really mad and tried to leave a bad review without giving any details. Since 123notary screens all negitive reviews, my side of the story would have been heard and of course the cancelation was unavoidable.
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 2:24:24 PM
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Hi Debra,
You are very long winded about this, but your profile has no negative reviews. Of 6000 notaries only about 12 have a negative review after 6 months of having this system. I don't allow anything to be posted until after I heard both sides of the story. You are not vulnerable at all here. You have prejudged my system and come to all types of false assumptions.
quote:
Originally posted by corki2
I won't pay for a listing that sets me up as a sitting duck for anyone to take a shot at. Jeremy told me to have faith in that he wouldn't allow anyone to post negative remarks that are unfounded. I have never given bad service, and am certain that I would never "earn" a bad review, but my point is, I am not going to pay someone to give others access to bash me. I have worked hard to build my reputation and refuse to trust anyone to protect it. That's my job and mine alone. It's for that reason I won't be renewing my listing here. There are too many directories out there. Now it appears that if you pay enough, you can get a better position in the listings. That seems a bit unfair to the folks who have already paid for a listing and didn't know they would have to pay more to have a decent placement. Jeremy doesn't appear to me to have our best interest at heart, but he is trying to make a living. That's apparent.
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 2:24:06 PM
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Hi Debra,
You are very long winded about this, but your profile has no negative reviews. Of 6000 notaries only about 12 have a negative review after 6 months of having this system. I don't allow anything to be posted until after I heard both sides of the story. You are not vulnerable at all here. You have prejudged my system and come to all types of false assumptions.
quote:
Originally posted by corki2
I won't pay for a listing that sets me up as a sitting duck for anyone to take a shot at. Jeremy told me to have faith in that he wouldn't allow anyone to post negative remarks that are unfounded. I have never given bad service, and am certain that I would never "earn" a bad review, but my point is, I am not going to pay someone to give others access to bash me. I have worked hard to build my reputation and refuse to trust anyone to protect it. That's my job and mine alone. It's for that reason I won't be renewing my listing here. There are too many directories out there. Now it appears that if you pay enough, you can get a better position in the listings. That seems a bit unfair to the folks who have already paid for a listing and didn't know they would have to pay more to have a decent placement. Jeremy doesn't appear to me to have our best interest at heart, but he is trying to make a living. That's apparent.
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 4:00:05 PM
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Paying for a higher listing has always been available on this site. When I first started in this biz in 2005, some guy from outside of my county had bought up all the top listings in every county or zip code in the surrounding areas so he would get the call first. I believe he farmed out any jobs he couldn't do. He let go of many of his listings when biz slowed down about 2 years ago.
Not saying I like it, but that's the way this site is set up.
CopperheadVA
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n/a
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 3:00:17 PM
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| I won't pay for a listing that sets me up as a sitting duck for anyone to take a shot at. Jeremy told me to have faith in that he wouldn't allow anyone to post negative remarks that are unfounded. I have never given bad service, and am certain that I would never "earn" a bad review, but my point is, I am not going to pay someone to give others access to bash me. I have worked hard to build my reputation and refuse to trust anyone to protect it. That's my job and mine alone. It's for that reason I won't be renewing my listing here. There are too many directories out there. Now it appears that if you pay enough, you can get a better position in the listings. That seems a bit unfair to the folks who have already paid for a listing and didn't know they would have to pay more to have a decent placement. Jeremy doesn't appear to me to have our best interest at heart, but he is trying to make a living. That's apparent. |
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n/a
California
3 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 11:15:41 PM
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I think that there should be a suggestion/complaint box. Then people that use the service will be able to give feed back, and we will be able to take action to better our service!
cheers
orange county mobile notary |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 3:27:37 PM
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<<<<I am the judge and jury...>>>>
Heeheehee! That is too cute! |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 2:08:54 PM
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I am the judge and jury and I know who the companies are who post reviews. I scrutinize the companies if there is a reason to. I don't want to release that information to the public since it will cause too much drama.
So far after two months using this system we have published only about four negative reviews that were heavily scrutinized. Positive comments were the vast majority. This system is clearly beneficial to the notary although they are very squeemish about the whole system.
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
678 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2009 : 06:01:09 AM
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Bringing Renee's comment (below) forward again because I have seen a few reviews (only 1 person's) that DO indicate who the client is. Granted, not in a lot of detail, but enough to google~~
"OH - and THEN my competition will know who my clients ARE!" Ixnay on the review requests ...
In a market as depressed as my state is, and with some of my best clients being local ... all MY hard marketing work is not something I want to hand over to the public, and that even includes some of my other clients (those that are SS's).
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 2:26:41 PM
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My cruise ship analogy was one example. I could use others. But, a paying customer can negatively effect my business. There is no hard set rule for how many times a browser has to get burned before they stop visiting our site. I have spoken to many who had one bad experience and never came back. Some go for a while, and then use us as a backup. Having notaries who engage in misconduct on board is like playing with fire. I need law and order which is fairly conducted.
If you had a site, do you want someone engaging in misconduct to negatively effect your reputation?
Badmouthing - so far, nobody has posted a vindictive post about a notary. I wouldn't allow it to be published anyway.
Beginners - the problem is not beginners. They might not do the best job. The problem is misconduct. Last minute cancellations, no shows, late docs, bad followup, etc.
Who are the bad guys? - its hard to tell if someone has one offense if they will be a multiple offender, or if they just had one bad day. This is the biggest problem with the system. Protecting the browsers from bad notaries is not an exact science. I have to just look at how severe the evidence is.
Try to look at this from my point of view or from a browsers point of view. I have heard your points of view. All of them make sense. But, if you look at the bigger picture, you will understand a lot more.
New Policy
Carmen and I discussed this for two hours a few days ago. If a notary commits serious misconduct and doesn't want a negative review posted -- we will give the notary the right to choose. If they choose to not have the review posted, the condition is that they sacrifice their listing in exchange for a prorated refund. |
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gjk-fl
Florida
151 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 12:50:04 PM
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I said I knew I'd get some flack from my post and I did. But that is ok, because we all fake it in this world when we have to, including when you are starting out in this business or in any new endeavor. You can't know everything from the get go, so act like you do until you learn it. Ever heard "fake it till you make it"?
I also said at the end of my post to continue to study and learn this job and it will soon be second nature. We all have to start somewhere and these newbies were wanting input. I stand by my post and don't think that it has anything to do with the new notary review process. I have been in this business for almost four years now and have several repeat customers who I work for on a consistant basis, so I must be doing something right.
gjk |
Edited by - gjk-fl on 05/19/2009 1:11:50 PM |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 10:04:52 AM
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It appears to me that the unstated goal is to remove those notaries from 123Notary that do not perform up to "minimum standards" so that browsers will only be able to see a list of folks that meet those minimums. Assuming that is the goal, it would be difficult to simply contact a member notary that has paid for a listing and advise them that they would no longer be welcome to maintain the listing here. It is not clear to me what ramifications said letter or notice would bring about. However, through a review process, a notary would likely decide to drop at least that particular listing for offered services if it contains negative information.
Establishing minimum standards for all notaries to meet is a lofty goal for a listing service that accepts both paid and unpaid “memberships.” Perhaps contrarily, this site offers advice and/or opinions within the forums including an entry this morning advising “...So in other words, I faked it and it worked for me. Just act like you know what you're doing, put the document in front of them and show them where to sign...” I wonder how that advice fits with minimum standards. I’m more likely to agree with advice that has a “harsher tone” posted on another web site that told a new notary to not even try and conduct a closing without complete familiarity of the documents to be presented in advance of the closing.
If the minimum standards are set too low, the browsers will not be as happy if they were set higher. If, they are set too high, it is unlikely that the list will continue to carry about 3,200 members. Most of the successful forums (and listing services) are evolving and not all changes made will be welcomed by all. So, I have a wait and see attitude towards this process. |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 05:37:05 AM
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With all due respect, I think the 'cruise ship' analogy doesn't really apply in this situation. If a signing agent is bad enough that a visitor (you call them browsers) has a major problem with them, then that should be brought to your attention. Then you, as the owner/operator of this service, have the option of maintaining his/her listing in your database or not.
I don't think that a business visitor will stop using your database because of one bad apple. I equate the search databases as 'customer service reps'. Each notary is a CSR of the title company, signing service and 123 (assuming the hiring agency found them here). Having been responsible for a couple technical CSR organizations for a major bank, I can honestly tell you that a bad performing CSR gets reported to management. Management then deals with the CSR. We never lost a client because of a bad CSR, but we did lose CSRs because of bad reports from clients. We never publicly posted reports, bad or good, about the CSRs for other existing or potential clients or other CSRs to see.
Getting back to your cruise ship analogy, what you are suggesting would be analogous to the cruise ship posting passenger reviews on a bulletin board for other passengers and crewmembers to see. I don't think that would be beneficial to anyone. If a passenger misbehaves, then that passenger is dealt with by the crew management (ship's officers). Even removal from the ship if necessary.
I'm sure every signing agent has had a disagreement in principal with a title company or signing service. Some such that the title company and/or signing service retaliates by dropping that signing agent from their list. Some may be vindictive enough to 'bad mouth' the signing agent which could cause irreputable harm to the owner of the database, but I seriously doubt it.
Whether or not you implement the posting of reviews is completely up to you, of course. And your decision will not change my decision whether or not to continue to support 123. I just think that you need to be aware of all the different opinions from our side of the monitor screen.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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jfsobers
Louisiana
90 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 05:23:53 AM
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| Jeremy, Respectfully: It is not at all comparable to a purchase of a vacation. The only true comparison is with another ad. Can we go on Wal Mart's ad and post our shopping experience? Can we go on any business' paid advertisement and post our OPINIONS? No. The bottom line is that the rules for advertising should only pertain to what WE post in our ad. They should not allow others to post ANYTHING on a paid for ad, regardless of the intent of the review (positive or negative). Rules for our ads? Sure. Allowing others to post on our PAID ad? No way. |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 12:17:55 AM
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Final say?
The reason I can not grant the signing agent the final say as to if they want a review page posted, is because the signing agent could cost 123 a regular browser that gives work to hundreds of our notaries. i.e. if a signing agent really does something horrible, we could lose a highly valued browser in the worst scenario. The individual signing agent could do tens of thousands of dollars of damages collectively to many notaries, not to mention to 123notary due to the loss of such a browser. Therefor the signing agent needs to be held accountable if they indeed are really at fault.
Here is a cruise ship analogy. Say you spend $1000 to go on a cruise ship ticket. Does this give you the right to run around naked, drunk, and screaming? You would be damaging the experience for the other passengers who may have paid $2000 each. There have to be rules, even for high paying customers. Whether a customer pays or not, accountability is serious, especially in a business like ours. Think of 123 as a cruise ship ( without ivan the bar tender ).
Determining fault is hard since everybody has an excuse for what they allegedly did wrong. I've been around in this business for a long time and have a very clear idea of which claims seem correct and which don't.
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 11:17:48 AM
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In my opinion, it doesn't make any difference if this is a 'win/win', good or bad policy, I think it still should be left up to the SA whether or not "reviews" would be included in their listing.
Those who have fundamental reasons for not including any reviews should be afforded the opportunity to not have them. It is "their" listing.
Jeremy is apparently taking a very positive approach to the use of reviews and, as Lee said, it should be a 'win/win' situation. But I still think the SA should have the final say. And it should be an "all or none" condition. That is, the SA cannot pick and choose what reviews get published. If reviews are allowed by the SA, then all reviews, approved by Jeremy, would be published. In no reviews are allowed by the SA, then none, regardless of editing or sanitizing by Jeremy, would be published.
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
678 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 11:03:45 AM
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Jeremy, as you've outlined the 'how' of this new policy/program in addressing Renee's concerns, I now think this can be a win/win.
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 10:28:31 AM
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Renee -
I think you have an indepth understanding of the situation. Allowing scrutinized reviews on 123 will encourage companies to use our notaries more which is to all of our benefits.
Although there are many hacks on both sides of the fence as well as individuals who misrepresent themselves, thats not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for individuals who harm our browsers. If our browsers have too many bad experiences with us, they might not come back, and then we all lose. So far, browsers are usually happy, but we always lose a few here and there. The ones we lose are generally ones who don't use directories that often, who have a bad experience and then never come back. I need to eliminate this type of problem as much as possible.
How are reviewers identified?
On my end, I can see who the reviewers are and I contact them to make sure they are real people and are above board. I can see what company they work for, their name and email. I contact them to make sure they are for real as well. Those details are NOT available on the front end because I don't want the title companies bombarded with emails from out of work notaries.
Reviews from "registered" companies are given more weight. We have about 300 signing / title companies registered with us. They don't have to pay for that. If a company has a good reputation for paying on time, then if they make a review of a notary, the review will be taken much more seriously since we know they are not troublemakers. A review from a questionable company like a loan modification company would be more likely to wind up as a "warning" to the notary and would not be likely to wind up publicly displayed on a notary's profile.
Scrutinizing reviewers
I have not seen anything that looked fraudulent so far. I do not scrutinize the positive reviews much as they are not harmful. Once in a while they look fake and I don't allow fake looking reviews. Its the negative reviews I check up on very very carefully and get the full story from both parties. I sometimes have to go back and forth several times to cover all points.
Let me know if you have more questions. You are welcome to email me.
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 02:39:54 AM
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To clarify (Paul) - I am supportive of this review venture, just have questions on the finer points.
The reviews could be a huge improvement to all parties - and exponentially. Most of the vendors are already keeping their own internal ratings, and bringing those reviews/ratings to the 'master' data-base makes (I think) good sense. For one thing, it would provide a feed-back loop that rarely exists with the internal/proprietary lists. Restricting the vendors from reviewing your work HERE isn't going to keep them from reviewing you in private - so ultimately it restricts more widespread use of 123, and that doesn't help anyone.
I'm all for accountability - and perhaps this could have some effect on those who blatantly lie in their profiles. Our industry has absolutely zero accountability - and 'policing' ourselves is, I think, a step in the right direction and probably just one step ahead of what the future might bring.
Also, having been on the other side of this industry I know first-hand something that perhaps many NSA's don't fully realize - our industry is FULL of hacks, to put it bluntly and mildly. Without going into the 'why & how' of it, this review system at least steps in the right direction, for both US and our clients.
It is pretty unprecedented, and of course there are a couple of sticking points, but that's what discussion is all about. Entrepreneurs and successful business managers need to always be looking for ways to stand out, to be innovative, to offer better service, to stay ahead of the game and find that 'cutting edge'.
Jeremy - please give a couple details to this:
- I'd LOVE to get my profile populated with reviews, and would begin asking clients to do that yesterday - but how will those reviewers be identified? Will their ID be kept internal/private? IOW - will I end up just handing my client list to my competitors? Remember that I am ALSO competing with SS's as well as other local NSA's.
- I'd like to ASSUME the reviewer's ID will be private, but WILL be verified by 123. Once the protocol is nailed-down, I'd like 123 to prominently display the protocol. In order for the reviews to have weight, our clients need to know how the reviews are screened, verified, confirmed, etc. They need to know how misuse (self-endorsing schemes) is prevented. |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2009 : 12:12:58 AM
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I'm sorry that I didn't inform everyone the day I decided to add the program. I let everyone know very soon after it was created.
A browser member is a browser who has registered with 123notary. There are many of them and I only accept companies who pay their notaries on time by the way.
The browsers are NOT paying me a penny. However, they are paying you. If they stop paying you, how long will you be paying me? Not long.
Do you spend all day worrying that a cop will pull you over on your way to a signing? You are more likely to have trouble with the police than with me, because they are looking for trouble. I am very cautious to protect all of my notaries unless I am sure they are being neglegent with our browsers. Browsers have been a huge priority since 2000. Our whole site is set up for their benefit. Otherwise they wouldn't be coming here and you folks wouldn't be getting business.
Try to think of this situation from a larger perspective instead of only how you feel on May 17th, 2009. I have to balance pleasing the notaries and pleasing the browers. None of you have any bad reviews and its only a 1/1000 chance that any of you on this post will ever get any. You have much bigger things to worry about than this as it only effects real troublemakers which you folks are not.
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jlissem
New Jersey
139 Posts |
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katepratt
Michigan
13 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 05:56:20 AM
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Since I am paying for my ad, I expect to be able to decide the content of it, not someone else, even Jeremy. If it were a FREE listing, that would be another matter. Is Jeremy being paid by these companies to bad mouth us? I am not happy about this situation at all!
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 05:47:23 AM
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"So far, the only notaries with a bad review didn't bother to respond to my email inquiry which was to find out their side of the story. The ones who responded were spared a bad review. There have been only 2 bad reviews in 30 days and over 20 positive ones"
Hmm...so this system has been in place for over 30 days and we're just finding out about it?
Linda
www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah
http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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CopperheadVA
Virginia
420 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 06:24:07 AM
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So how do you all feel about this new feature on the notary advertisement profiles?
CopperheadVA
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