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  2 people liked this post.
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
 Posted - 12/31/2010 : 10:39:10 AM
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Which entity do you think is bigger and better Capitalized: Ken the Notary or WalMart? Right you are! Compared to WalMart I not only don't exist - I never existed.
So, knowing that they "could afford it" - I tried an experiment. I went into the deal as the "Signing Service" and had WalMart be the Notary.
I went to the local WalMart and picked out just 2 shirts. When I got to the checkout I asked them to Invoice me. I told them I pay 20 days after the the month end in which I wear the shirts. That is a fair analogy.
The clerk INSISTED upon payment "up front" if I wished to leave the store with the shirts, how odd! I explained that MY terms were "industry standard" and that if I subsequently discovered a flaw in either shirt there would be a deduction from the payment to them.
I walked out without the shirts!
Today I had a call (which inspired this posting) from "sleazy signing service" - you know the type - PO Box address, no web site, just a cell phone...... They offered 65$ for edoc but quickly agreed to my more reasonable fee. A little research: not on 123 or NR; a bad sign. So I called back with MY TERMS - they did not accept (yet?) - for I have had several cases where my terms were initially declined; but later in desperation an "up front" PayPal payment made.
REREAD the prior posts in this thread - there is MUCH wisdom in each of them. Are you a signing agent or a lending institution?
Every time I buy something on the internet or by phone - be it a physical item or a service payment is EXPECTED "up front". Why do so many notaries / signing agents permit delayed or non-payment? It's one thing if you KNOW the person you are extending credit to - but as mom taught me "trust has to be earned"; it's not given away to any stranger who (in effect) says "trust me" (to pay you).
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
Edited by - edelske on 12/31/2010 10:47:23 AM |
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16608
Texas
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 1:14:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa T.
susiet57: I am a member of my city's chamber of commerce and also network through other groups. I meet mortgage brokers and bankers, escrow and title officers, realtors, attorneys, CPA's and I get to know them by attending the breakfast meetings, luncheons, ribbon cutting ceremonies, multi-chamber mixers. I am visible as much as possible. By getting to know these professionals - showing up at the meetings dressed professionally, it builds trust and they will call me for loan signings, or refer me to their friends, family members and other business associates. Not only do I get business from them on a professional level but on a personal level too.
As the old adage goes: It's not what you know, it's who you know. Of course, we must know our craft and know it thoroughly, but it's who I know that gets me the $150 (and up) signings where I get the check in seven days to two weeks AND the docs are printed for me - I just pick them up at the brokers office, complete the signing and return them to the broker. It is rare that the signings are edoc. Don't use any of my paper, toner, envelopes, binder clips, etc. That is the result of getting to know a mortgage broker 30 years in the business with whom I met at a networking meeting a year ago and see him at least once a month at a networking breakfast meeting. It takes time to build relationships like that (and it's fun because you get to eat, snack, have fancy appetizers and fine wine and cheeses) but once you're IN.....there is no better way to get business than referrals - that is how I build my business with top quality professionals who are so willing to pay good money for a stellar job.
[/quote]We are a group of notaries fed up with these companies not paying us. We have formed Notaries United. We have been able to collect 99% of the outstanding invoices we have gone after, and in about 24 hours of making contact with the signing company. If you would like us to help you, contact us at notaries.united@onebox.com We do not charge for our service. We are very busy and should get back with you within 10 hours. Hope this helps.
Binky |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 5:33:41 PM
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susiet57: I am a member of my city's chamber of commerce and also network through other groups. I meet mortgage brokers and bankers, escrow and title officers, realtors, attorneys, CPA's and I get to know them by attending the breakfast meetings, luncheons, ribbon cutting ceremonies, multi-chamber mixers. I am visible as much as possible. By getting to know these professionals - showing up at the meetings dressed professionally, it builds trust and they will call me for loan signings, or refer me to their friends, family members and other business associates. Not only do I get business from them on a professional level but on a personal level too.
As the old adage goes: It's not what you know, it's who you know. Of course, we must know our craft and know it thoroughly, but it's who I know that gets me the $150 (and up) signings where I get the check in seven days to two weeks AND the docs are printed for me - I just pick them up at the brokers office, complete the signing and return them to the broker. It is rare that the signings are edoc. Don't use any of my paper, toner, envelopes, binder clips, etc. That is the result of getting to know a mortgage broker 30 years in the business with whom I met at a networking meeting a year ago and see him at least once a month at a networking breakfast meeting. It takes time to build relationships like that (and it's fun because you get to eat, snack, have fancy appetizers and fine wine and cheeses) but once you're IN.....there is no better way to get business than referrals - that is how I build my business with top quality professionals who are so willing to pay good money for a stellar job. |
Edited by - Lisa T. on 12/15/2009 5:34:37 PM |
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susiet57
Tennessee
24 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 2:45:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa T.
I certainly understand how you feel and have eliminated working with signing services - except one that pays in two weeks. I now will only work directly with title and escrow companies - regulated companies with a governing agency I can report them to if I have problems with them. Signing services pop up out of nowhere - many who are just renamed deadbeats - and they disappear like the flicker of a candlelight - leaving a trail of unpaid invoices to Notaries.
How do you find them??? |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 10:07:20 AM
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The title company may go through a signing service for many reasons: convenience, guarantee of service, low rates, supposedly checking out the qualifications of each and every agent and so on. But, if each signing agent only accepted business from title companies and services that met unique qualifications, then the fly-by-night companies would not exist.
Many people have come and gone in the signing agent business in the few years that I’ve been involved. New notaries that are eager to accept assignments do so at rates that will not support staying in business for long. I’ve had calls from a few of them. They’ll say that they will be fine when they can do seven or eight signings a day, but slowly realize that frequency is unlikely in this area, except during a well planned end of month rush. Unfortunately, as they learn and leave, others replace them. And the same is true of a number of the get quick rich signing services. Under-capitalized companies, many with great intentions, have come and gone.
So, my business plan does not allow me to accept business from untested companies (or worse yet, ones that have failed to keep decent standards) and/or ones that cannot meet reasonable fee levels. |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 05:08:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sailing
I would like to see a law passed that would require notaries be paid at the time the loan closes. I wish that I could convince my congressman to introduce such a bill. It sounds like some of you are actually busy enough that you can pick and choose. During this current economic situation, I am sure that this by far is the exception and not the rule.
Two issues here that I think need to be addressed.
First, you are not being paid as a notary, but as a signing agent, wherein the notarial duties are a subset of the signing agent duties. Therefore, the payment is not a payment to a state official, but to a business person or entity. Not necessarily the same rules.
Second, being paid at closing is the way it used to be before signing services. Typically the "remote closer" or signing agent, was shown on the HUD and paid when the file closed. The risk then, was if the file didn't close, then payments were not made. In other words, the signing agent wasn't paid either. That was the risk the signing agent took. But, the fees being paid were higher due to the risk involved. Also, at that time, I submit that less than 10% of the closings were either aborted or didn't fund for whatever reason, so in reality, the risk was rather small.
Today, with the advent of the Signing Service or Agency, title companies and lenders no longer need to have their own list of "closers" but rely on a service to hire the signing agent. It used to be that the signing agent would always be paid regardless if the closing funded or not. But that has gone by the wayside with all the 'fly-by-night' and 'get-rich-quick' signing services out there who are terribly under capitalized and often have no intention of paying their sub-contractors, the signing agent. This has left the signing agent in a precarious position, to say the least. Many signing agents have decided to only work directly with title companies, lenders and brokers, and maybe a couple of highly reputable signing services. The decision to take an assignment can only be made by the signing agent. In my opinion, unless the signing agent is knowledgeable about the signing service, they are at an extreme risk of non-payment or lots of headaches trying to get paid. It is always best to research your "employer" before accepting the job.
(I know there are always exceptions to the rule. But if you 'play the percentages,' you will probably come out ahead of the game rather than spending more time chasing down your money that you still may not ever get.)
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida,
and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
Edited by - PWinFL on 12/01/2009 05:14:49 AM |
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sailing
Washington
59 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 9:09:05 PM
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I would prefer to only work for title companies, however that would limit me to about 1 - 2 signings a month. Some of the signing companies have a "no compete" clause included in the package I receive after accepting the signing. If I don't return all of the required forms then I won't get paid. I would like to see a law passed that would require notaries be paid at the time the loan closes. I wish that I could convince my congressman to introduce such a bill. It sounds like some of you are actually busy enough that you can pick and choose. During this current economic situation, I am sure that this by far is the exception and not the rule.
Diane J. Elliott |
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Lisa T.
California
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2009 : 3:09:01 PM
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| I certainly understand how you feel and have eliminated working with signing services - except one that pays in two weeks. I now will only work directly with title and escrow companies - regulated companies with a governing agency I can report them to if I have problems with them. Signing services pop up out of nowhere - many who are just renamed deadbeats - and they disappear like the flicker of a candlelight - leaving a trail of unpaid invoices to Notaries. |
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vabarb
Virginia
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2009 : 10:28:21 AM
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I was "out of business" as a notary from 9/1/07 until 6/23/08 because of a broken foot. Since getting back, I have been amazed at the changes that have taken place in this business. I began doing signings in March, 2005 and prior to being temporarily unable to, I completed over 500 signings and never had a single company fail to pay me. I only had to send this site's demand letter 1 time and was paid as a result.
In the time I've been back in business, I've completed 35 signings and have had to repeatedly remind most companies that they owe me and have had 2 companies just refuse to pay. One of these companies is one I had completed signings for in the past and fully trusted them to pay.
In light of these new developments, I'm adopting a firm policy of payment in advance. I know that might mean fewer signings (or even none) but I'm not willing to risk doing the work for nothing any more.
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Renee
Michigan
549 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 12:04:18 PM
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Vince said what I've been saying for years, and I TOTALLY agree:
"Many times, the very companies that call with low ball offers are the ones to stay away from anyway."
I do not have any problems getting paid. I might run into a couple a year that need some prodding; I will and have filed collections with D&B when needed (so far, once - got paid, too); I don't let anyone get too deep into the red zone. I did lose pay for ONE job to EFS, and ONE job to SE Equity with each of those closed their doors. That's the run-down of my 'issues' since 2005.
The common denominators with payment issues are VERY evident. Low-ballers, NSA's who need to hone their business management skills AND learn how to properly manage receivables.
Worst illustration against NSA's general business management practices is the fact that the most notorious non-paying SS's on the planet are STILL IN BUSINESS |
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vince
Kansas
324 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 07:34:56 AM
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"WISE UP - prove you are worthy - demand your fee in advance - and get off the collection merry go round forever."
That sounds pretty strong. It is doubtful that the majority of folks that are signing loans full-time are collecting their fees in advance of all assignments. However, many are indeed like banks and consider the credit worthiness in advance of accepting work from a particular Title Company and/or Signing Service. That is to say they do one or more of the following: 1. a search of what other notaries have to say about the companies' payment practices before they accept an assignment. 2. Carry a "no - no" list of companies that do not pay or have been cautioned about and/or 3. Memorize what companies do pay or do not or 4. Limit the business they have to one to five companies they accept work from. If it is a company that is moving back its payables beyond 15 to 30 days, they may decide not to accept an assignment from them.
Many times, the very companies that call with low ball offers are the ones to stay away from anyway. It is amazing to me that boards such as this have the loud bold posts telling all to stay away from a particular company that has been mentioned ad nauseam per week, per month per year. Most of the companies engaging my services pay within a few days of the loans funding and that is expected and understood by them and by me. But, that is my opinion based upon reading these boards for three years or so. If you or anyone else can do this full time and always be paid in advance, it would be interesting to know the population base within the area served as it is not likely to be a rural or suburban area. |
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edelske
New York
815 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 12:44:12 PM
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Frankly it continues to astonish me that this area exists on the forum, as, to me, it really should not exist. Why are you people "playing bank" and not sticking to being "signing agents". What you are really doing is "lending money" - to practically anyone who asks. Most times you don't know their real names or addresses! Why are you doing this? When I order a burger at McDonalds they make me PAY FIRST - prior to getting the burger. MOST of the complaints here are from people who act as if they are in the banking business - they are lending money to strangers. Not ME!!
Unless I REALLY KNOW who I am dealing with - REALLY - I won't lend them money! That is exactly what you are doing when you accept jobs from strangers who will "pay you later". Why later? Why not NOW? The answer is because you accept the "later" and not insist on the "now".
Some of the "lowball" outfits have no desire to pay - unless you become such a pest that it's worth it just to get rid of you. Do you really want to devote several hours of time to collect $60 - of course not - AND THEY KNOW IT.
While I was writing this - really - I just had a call from a Doctor in Calif. who needed a transcript to receive an Apostille. One of the more complex and time consuming things that I do. HE asked why he should "pay in advance" - Doctor - I said - look at my web site - it's designed to instill confidence in paying a "stranger" - you will see my LIVE LINK to Better Business Bureau, Manhattan Chamber of Commerce, and a LOT of REAL (pictures) info on the "about me" page.
It's a two way street. If you want to be paid in advance you have to be able to PROVE who you are and that you are trustworthy. It continues to amaze me that so many notaries accept a work order without any name, a PO Box for an address and just an easy to change cell number. A new cell SIM card cost 9 bucks - that is how you get a ring no answer and they just "sucker in" the newbie notary fish.
WISE UP - prove you are worthy - demand your fee in advance - and get off the collection merry go round forever.
Kenneth A Edelstein
Mobile Notary, Apostille / Legalization Processing & Fingerprinting
http://www.kenneth-a-edelstein.com |
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