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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 11:06:08 PM
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My main issue here is, HOW do you know that a particular loan modification is illegal. Do we prejudge them, or do we need to know how to DEFINE which ones are okay and which ones are not? Even if the loan is legal, it might still be a rip off. Lawyers don't work for free. $350 per hour will just get you deeper in trouble in my humble opinion. But then, I rent, so what do I know?
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tomthenotary
Maryland
82 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 7:19:38 PM
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Why would anyone who needs help with their mortgage go to a loan mod company?? Our goverment offer project HOPE and other local programs to assist home owners, if that does not help they should take the money the loan mod companies want up front and hire a competant attorney. And if that doesn't work your DLAPC. (done like a perdue chicken)!!!!!!!! |
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PWinFL
Florida
469 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 4:51:26 PM
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I would bet dollars to donuts that anyone assisting in the "loan modification" process is a willing accomplice. (Obviously, a notary cannot do this as it is not an authorized duty or function of a notary public. So "notarial" protection is non-existent.) Being a willing participant in the illegal transaction makes you liable by complicity. It can be argued that the "signing agent" is acting as an agent for the company and therefore is performing an illegal act by perpetrating a known fraudulent or illegal transaction, thus committing a crime.
quote: If you are just supervising someone sign a document and delivering it, you are only performing a function.
You are doing so at the instruction of someone (entity) who has hired you to act as their agent in the performance of that function. You cannot be held at arms length when working as a contractor for hire.
quote: Should it be illegal to make a milkshake for someone who looks like mafia? Its not so different in this case.
It is MUCHO different. Making milkshakes for someone is not by contract. Now if the Mafia boss hired you to make a poisoned milkshake for Guido the Knee-cap Buster, would you not consider that an illegal activity?
Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly.
I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice.
Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com |
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 4:46:08 PM
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quote: Originally posted by jbelmont
It looks to me that perhaps notaries should ask an attorney whether it is risky to participate in a loan modification. Since the notary is not performing in the capacity of a notary in these transactions, and not committing any crimes, it looks to be okay to me for a notary to do these. If you are just supervising someone sign a document and delivering it, you are only performing a function.
Should it be illegal to make a milkshake for someone who looks like mafia? Its not so different in this case. Notaries should not notarize shakey paperwork, but supervising signing and delivering? Hmm. It sounds to me like a personal decision and not a legal issue.
Well, I can only speak for Florida....but I disagree Jeremy
As I said, it's illegal here for up-front fees to be collected for a loan modification - statutes are clear that funds are to be collected only after all services are rendered. Now, knowing this, if I take an assignment from one of these companies and am sent to the borrower as the company "representative", which they instruct us to do, and I'm told to collect up front fees (which I know is illegal) ... No, I do NOT think it's okay for us to do this - we may not be directly liable to the borrower for any losses but I'm not so sure we're not just as complicit ...
Even the old "I didn't realize" or "I didn't know" defense wouldn't work....it's our job to know and realize.
MHO
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Edited by - LindaH on 10/14/2009 4:48:05 PM |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 4:06:20 PM
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It looks to me that perhaps notaries should ask an attorney whether it is risky to participate in a loan modification. Since the notary is not performing in the capacity of a notary in these transactions, and not committing any crimes, it looks to be okay to me for a notary to do these. If you are just supervising someone sign a document and delivering it, you are only performing a function.
Should it be illegal to make a milkshake for someone who looks like mafia? Its not so different in this case. Notaries should not notarize shakey paperwork, but supervising signing and delivering? Hmm. It sounds to me like a personal decision and not a legal issue.
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Lee-AR
Arkansas
678 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2009 : 10:11:29 AM
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My attitude towards these Loan Mod. APPLICATIONS is: find somebody else. I just don't want to be involved. I'm fairly sure there are good Loan Modification companies out there. Problem is the infamous one looked OK at first. Who can say which is which until the dust settles and the lawsuits fly? As these really do not need any notarization at all, the good companies don't need us and the bad ones are just using us to 'get it done'.
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LindaH
Florida
1754 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 12:38:01 PM
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It's been discussed widely here in various threads normally under the name of that infamous company that started this whole mess and which is now being investigated by the FBI...
I think the first thing any notary/signing agent needs to do is research their own state and be aware of what IS and IS NOT allowed in their particular state - especially since with applications there normally are no notarizations - this is NOT a notary function but, rather, a signing agent function. Risky for your commission? I'm not sure - being that it's not a notary "function" or "authorized duty" the liability probably lies in whether or not the notary is knowingly involved in any criminal activity associated with the application process. Possible exposure to having your commission revoked if the modifications are illegal in your state and you've taken part in that process depending on how the laws are enforced - you don't need to be a notary to be complicit in bilking someone out of thousands of dollars...
In FL....I, personally, won't do the applications. It's illegal here to collect up-front fees for modification applications (a la 21st Century/Fidelity National Legal Services and whatever else they're known as)...further, there is legislation pending that will require that anyone involved in the loan application process have an originator's license...it's still undecided if this is going to trickle down to the signing agents but demands attention of all notaries who do RESPA signings in Florida.
My point being - each notary doing loan related work (Modifications, RESPA applications, loan closings/remote closings/witness only closings) MUST be aware of the requirements of their individual state - what is and is not allowed - what's legal and what's illegal...what they can and cannot do and the consequences of all of the above to not only their commission but their personal situation.
My .02 FWIW
Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
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Edited by - LindaH on 10/12/2009 12:39:54 PM |
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jbelmont
California
3106 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 12:19:52 PM
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Dear Notaries, I need to know how loan modification companies are behaving these days. When the trend first started, they were considered sketchy, but were paying the notaries. These days, many are being unreliable in a variety of ways, and often not paying the notaries.
Additionally, many companies ask notaries to claim that they represent the loan modification company. Don't do this. That is fraud and can get you in trouble.
One loan modification company misrepresented themselves by hiring one of our notaries, and not letting him know their company name. They sent docs late to him. They hired him to do a signing and then changed the plan and asked him to deliver docs instead of doing a signing. This is a bit bizarre.
Is it a violation of your notary commission to do a signing for a loan which seems fraudulent? Is that a compromise of your integrity as a notary? How can you know if it is fraudulent, or merely a rip off? Is it fair for a notary to deem ALL loan mods as potentially fraudulent by definition? Does a loan modification company have to have an attorney licensed in the state of the signing to do a loan modification there?
Should the notary require the loan mod company to have a licensed attorney in their state or refuse the job?
What are the names of the loan modification companies. Who are the decent ones and who are the problem companies?
Are these loan mod companies and loan modifications so bad or potentially fraudulent that 123notary should discourage any notary from doing a loan modification signing?
These are all difficult questions and its an individual choice what your terms are. However, I think we should start a dialogue about this.
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