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T O P I C R E V I E W
Scott W	Posted - 04/18/2011 : 3:04:11 PM The last couple of times I've had documents notarized at my bank the notaries added the drivers license number to the document after they had signed. What's up with that? I think that information is extraneous to the matter at hand and constitutes fraud. What am I missing here? Thanks, a natural born American.
9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Scott W	Posted - 05/08/2011 : 7:20:33 PM Thanks all for your considerate remarks. @fecmiller; Central to my case relevant to these sealed documents is my contention that I am an American and a national of the United States. The new Homeland Security "rules" now prohibit me from using the term "All rights reserved without prejudice" when I renew my NH drivers license. Even though I have done that since my first issued license back in 1976, the last time I renewed they told me that if I put that on the (electronic) signature pad that they would NOT give me a drivers license. So to me; and this is just my opinion; the new rules mandate that all drivers licenses are only issued to US citizens or federal subjects of the 14th Amendment scam. That contradicts my assertion of my status vis a vis my exercise of the Common Law rights versus the "privileges and immunities" ascribed to a US citizen. PW & Linda; I concur about the "rules" not being specific. I guess a Passport will be my choice of ID the next time I need a notary. Interesting that a Birth Certificate is not considered valid ID. Sorry to take so long to get back to you all. Thanks to the host for moving this post to a more appropriate location.
becmiller	Posted - 05/07/2011 : 11:41:56 PM I have looked at this topic looking for the story and not really found it, so I will tell mine. I received a call from an unknown (to me)Signing Service and they tell me some details of the appointment they want me to accept. I check out their name and there are not any negative comments for them on 123Notary, so I accept the appointment for later that night. I received the confirmation from the company and realized that it was a couple I had done a closing with several years before. The confirmation had the borrowers phone number for some place 30 states away. The phone number in my local phone book was disconnected, so I had no way to contact the borrowers. I received the e-mail documents and realized the name on the signature lines is not the same as the confirmation. The couple was not married when I signed with them years ago. So I wondered. I drove the 46 miles from work to my home and then the 20 more miles to their house. We started signing and talking about her signature line stating her maiden name and not her married name, but they had married over a year ago. Her driver license also had her married name on it. We called to ask questions, but everyone was unreachable. We signed all the documents and I called in the morning and emailed the SS and told them about the name problem. The SS called the Title Co and then called me at 4pm and told me to shred all the documents we had signed and they were sending me the corrected documents for the signing again that night. I called and told the borrowers I would not make it until about 7:30pm and is that alright? She said it was fine even though it was an hour later than the scheduled time. We signed all the new documents with her correct name from her driver license and I told the SS the next morning. I received a call about 4pm saying, "There are several more documents that did not get into the package and we need you to go out again tonight. We will pay a trip fee." I said OK. They sent me 5 more pages of documents with several of them needing notarizations, all with her maiden name on them...
becmiller	Posted - 05/07/2011 : 11:08:31 PM Sound Check
LindaH	Posted - 04/20/2011 : 08:01:24 AM Guilty as charged - I did it once - back when I first started in FL, I used an NNA pre-printed certificate form, which had a line for the ID number, and I filled it out... Learned quickly I was wrong and never did it again - threw out all my NNA certs and never looked back... Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
PWinFL	Posted - 04/20/2011 : 07:55:01 AM I fully agree, Linda. It's just that the 'rules' from many moons ago have developed into true folklore. This is especially true where the rules don't even exist. It is not uncommon to see SSN's, DL serial number, even military service numbers. The practice of including the identification information on things like POAs, Wills, even Deeds, has a long a flourishing history. Do I think it is wrong to do so? You bet, but since it isn't "wrong" or "right", it goes unchecked and left up to the clerk to be the rule maker as to what they will accept and what they won't. Remember to look at it from the recipient's view. (In this case, the person at the bank.) It is their call what they want and how the 'finished product' is suppose to look. Is it the way I would do business, no. The same (I'm guessing) as most notaries here would perform. Our (FL) rules changed back in 2002 concerning the inclusion of SSN's in documents. The rules changed to have them removed, but there are still a lot of notaries, especially those in corporate managelment, who 'didn't get the memo' when the rules changed. Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice. Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com
LindaH	Posted - 04/20/2011 : 05:57:25 AM quote: Originally posted by PWinFL New Hampshire has one of the weakest laws for notarial practice in the whole US. The notary statutes do not define identification documents, no surprise there, the New Hampshire’s election law statutes provide a list of identification documents that may me used in determining a person’s identity. (See RSA 654:12) Acceptable identification documents for election law purposes include a photo driver’s license issued by any state or the federal government, a United States passport, armed services identification, or other photo identification issued by the United States government, or a photo identification issued by a local or state government. The election law also allows use of other photo identification, such as an employee photo identification card issued by a local employer where the official is familiar with the appearance of a legitimate employee ID from that employer and knows that the employer exercises reasonable care in issuing employee identification cards. Because the notary law does not provide a list of acceptable identification documents, good practice would include consulting this elections law list when deciding whether an identification document is acceptable. Notice that while NOT required by law, it is recommended that a Notary Public maintain a journal of all notarial acts performed. Good practice would dictate including in the journal, at a minimum, the following information: 1. The notarial act performed; 2. The date of the notarial act; 3. The identifying information of the person appearing before the Notary Public; and, 4. Any other details the Notary Public believes would be useful in referring back to the act. See highlighted information above. Note that NH practices suggest copying the identification information which includes serial numbers from ID cards (e.g. driver's license number), DOB, address, etc. It does not suggest simply recording the type of ID used. Given that interpretation, plus older recording procedures, indicates that the ID serial number would be affixed to the document as well as the journal. In FL, it was just recently that social security numbers, if printed on a document, would need to be redacted prior to recording. Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice. Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com I'm going to disagree Paul - just because it is suggested what information is to be included in the journal does not mean that info should be included in the doc...and since their sample certificates do NOT state type of ID used, I'd deduced it's not to be included in the cert on the doc. MHO Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
PWinFL	Posted - 04/20/2011 : 05:48:23 AM New Hampshire has one of the weakest laws for notarial practice in the whole US. The notary statutes do not define identification documents, no surprise there, the New Hampshire’s election law statutes provide a list of identification documents that may me used in determining a person’s identity. (See RSA 654:12) Acceptable identification documents for election law purposes include a photo driver’s license issued by any state or the federal government, a United States passport, armed services identification, or other photo identification issued by the United States government, or a photo identification issued by a local or state government. The election law also allows use of other photo identification, such as an employee photo identification card issued by a local employer where the official is familiar with the appearance of a legitimate employee ID from that employer and knows that the employer exercises reasonable care in issuing employee identification cards. Because the notary law does not provide a list of acceptable identification documents, good practice would include consulting this elections law list when deciding whether an identification document is acceptable. Notice that while NOT required by law, it is recommended that a Notary Public maintain a journal of all notarial acts performed. Good practice would dictate including in the journal, at a minimum, the following information: 1. The notarial act performed; 2. The date of the notarial act; 3. The identifying information of the person appearing before the Notary Public; and, 4. Any other details the Notary Public believes would be useful in referring back to the act. See highlighted information above. Note that NH practices suggest copying the identification information which includes serial numbers from ID cards (e.g. driver's license number), DOB, address, etc. It does not suggest simply recording the type of ID used. Given that interpretation, plus older recording procedures, indicates that the ID serial number would be affixed to the document as well as the journal. In FL, it was just recently that social security numbers, if printed on a document, would need to be redacted prior to recording. Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice. Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com
LindaH	Posted - 04/20/2011 : 05:41:23 AM Yes, I'm a bit confused too - but I've seen DL numbers included in notarial certs when I've been checking recordings - it's not required in FL so I'm not sure why notaries do it except perhaps they think they're being more thorough.. Make sure the number being added is, in fact, your driver's license number and not the notary's commission number as Lee suggested. If it's the DL then, if it were me (and this is only my opinion) and especially if this document is to become a public record (the original being recorded as opposed to you, the signer, getting the original right back) I'd ask them to not include the DL number in the cert. Since this information is not required in certs in New Hampshire, I feel you'd be well within your right to ask them not to include it...see the following link to the New Hampshire SOS for sample acknowledgements -notice they do not indicate form of ID is required. http://www.sos.nh.gov/NP%20JP%20Manual%20August2009.pdf Good Luck. Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
Lee-AR	Posted - 04/19/2011 : 11:28:41 PM Not sure I understand 'the drivers license number'. Yours? If so, maybe they are trying to show how they identified you? Which would be very strange, but I don't think it's fraud. If not yours, maybe it's their own Notary Commission number and not a 'drivers license number'.