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Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890

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T O P I C R E V I E W
jbelmont	Posted - 02/16/2011 : 4:38:34 PM The Sherman antitrust act which was passed in 1890 attempts to guard against monopolies, cartels, price fixing, and other ways of artificially raising prices. Several of our notaries think that by merely discussing pricing ideas that we are violating this very serious monopoly law. First of all, we are not in the notary business, we are in the directory business. I personally am indifferent to what you charge or why. We are merely raising the topic of what you should think about charging, i.e. pricing ideas to help notaries make the most out of their career. We are not saying that you "should" charge a particular price. I think that the notaries accusing us of breaking this act or law are engaged in the unauthorized practice of law. They are not attorneys and do not know how to interpret this law, and neither do I.
4 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
jbelmont	Posted - 02/17/2011 : 2:32:38 PM The link you provided was good. However, it is more important to look at how the DOJ's article applies to us. The article clearly states that price fixing is an act that is done by COMPETITORS who AGREE to fix prices in some way. Some of the types of fixing include: Adopt a standard formula for computing prices. Adhere to a minimum fee or price schedule. We are not establishing a formal schedule, nor are we competitors who are conspiring with other competitors. We are not agreeing with anyone about any prices. We are just making informal suggestions as to what a notary might charge. You are not an attorney and you don't know how to interpret the law in a legal way, nor are you interpreting in a logical layman's way either. You are engaging in false accusations based on being overly nit-picky. Please remember, that half of the notaries who read this form are inexperienced and need mentoring to know what they should charge. Without some suggestion of some sort they will be left high and dry. We are not breaking an laws to help these people. We are just making suggestions. The DOJ further says that suspicious behavior or a behavior indicating a warning sign could include a BIDDER or SALESPERSON who makes any reference to industry-wide or association price schedules. We are not in collusion with anyone. We are just suggesting ideas. Please study the criteria of the law before making a baseless accusation made through ignorance. If we had suggested that ALL notaries in the business charge particular prices for certain acts, then you would have a basis for suspicious behavior according to the DOJ's article. Still not a violation though, only suspicious. Perhaps on pricing suggestions, I might say, "If it were me, I would charge: X amount of dollars". Then, there would be less grounds for criticism. The bigger issue is that I'm trying to help notaries out in ways that I don't even get paid for, and all I get is harrassment and false accusations, irate maniacs trying to harm me just because they don't like the way I said something or becuase maybe I made a small error somewhere. I think you need to take a closer look at the big picture. Maybe YOU should do something to educate the community and write a blog instead of tearing people down like myself who stick their neck out to help others.
PWinFL	Posted - 02/17/2011 : 04:34:35 AM Wikipedia? That is not a reliable nor trusted source of information. Remember, those articles are written by users, edited by anyone, not necessarily authorities. The information I provided is directly from the US Department of Justice, as cited in my post, with a link to the entire article provided by the DOJ. Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice. Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com
jbelmont	Posted - 02/16/2011 : 9:27:03 PM We are only proposing ideas about what a notary might consider charging. We are not making formal recommendations. What is your definition of price fixing in a broader sense? Where do you get this definition from? Here is what the Wikipedia gods say, "Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand. The group of market makers involved in price fixing is sometimes referred to as a cartel. The intent of price fixing may be to push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all sellers, but it may also have the goal to fix, peg, discount, or stabilize prices. The defining characteristic of price fixing is any agreement regarding price, whether expressed or implied. Price fixing requires a conspiracy between sellers or buyers; the purpose is to coordinate pricing for mutual benefit of the traders. Sellers might agree to sell at a common target price; set a common minimum price; buy the product from a supplier at a specified maximum price; adhere to a price book or list price; engage in cooperative price advertising; standardize financial credit terms offered to purchasers; use uniform trade-in allowances; limit discounts; discontinue a free service or fix the price of one component of an overall service; adhere uniformly to previously-announced prices and terms of sale; establish uniform costs and markups; impose mandatory surcharges; purposefully reduce output or sales in order to charge higher prices; or purposefully share or pool markets, territories, or customers." I am not making an agreement with anyone, nor am I on the same side in a market with anyone. I'm merely mentoring notaries, many of whom need ideas. I'm not fixing anything, I'm just proposing ideas of what a notary might think about charging, or approximately what they might think about charging.
PWinFL	Posted - 02/16/2011 : 6:40:58 PM quote: Originally posted by jbelmont The Sherman antitrust act which was passed in 1890 attempts to guard against monopolies, cartels, price fixing, and other ways of artificially raising prices. Among other things. quote: Originally posted by jbelmont Several of our notaries think that by merely discussing pricing ideas that we are violating this very serious monopoly law. First of all, we are not in the notary business, we are in the directory business. I personally am indifferent to what you charge or why. Doesn't make any difference what business you are in. Suggesting prices is a form of price fixing. (See definition of Price Fixing below.) quote: Originally posted by jbelmont We are merely raising the topic of what you should think about charging, i.e. pricing ideas to help notaries make the most out of their career. We are not saying that you "should" charge a particular price. See the following description of price fixing. quote: Originally posted by jbelmont I think that the notaries accusing us of breaking this act or law are engaged in the unauthorized practice of law. They are not attorneys and do not know how to interpret this law, and neither do I. Really? How do you arrive at the conclusion that any accusation, whether justified or not, is UPL? And, I'm sure you are aware, there are many notaries who are also attorneys. And more who are practicing paralegals. But that doesn't make any difference. The follow excerpt is from the US Department of Justice on Price Fixing, Bid Rigging and Market Allocation Schemes: quote: Source: US DOJ Antitrust Primer http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/guidelines/211578.pdf Price fixing is an agreement among competitors to raise, fix, or otherwise maintain the price at which their goods or services are sold. It is not necessary that the competitors agree to charge exactly the same price, or that every competitor in a given industry join the conspiracy. Price fixing can take many forms, and any agreement that restricts price competition violates the law. Remember when the NNA proposed fees for signing agents? The DOJ took a very stern approach with the NNA. Soon afterwards, the NNA removed the chart of suggested fees. (This is not to say the the DOJ investigation had anything to do with the NNA's action, but I'm not a big fan of coincidence.) Never drive any faster than your guardian angel can fly. I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in the State of Florida, and I may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice. Visit us online at http://www.PAWnotary.com