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What to do when the ID has a name variation?

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T O P I C R E V I E W
jbelmont	Posted - 01/07/2011 : 7:49:54 PM If the ID has a different name variation than the name on the documents, what do you do? The signature affidavit and AKA statement is one remedy that is often acceptable. But, many notaries use credible witnesses to identify the signer when the ID has a different name variation. Technically, in many states, you are not supposed to use CW's unless there is no ID. What do you guys think? My recent blog post brings up this issue. Credible Witnesses from A to Z http://blog.123notary.com/?tag=cwaz
6 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Dannotary	Posted - 01/12/2011 : 10:48:53 PM I have been telling people in this industry for years that ID copies need to be obtained in advance of drawing docs, by the loan agents/lenders, its their requirement in the first place. THere are many ways to deal with ID discrepancies but after hours you'll never know how they want it. Changed and initialed, initialed not changed, re-draw, or sign as an AKA in which case borrowers have to hear that instruction from someone other than me so as I am not practicing law. Credible witnesses could be used but I don't feel comfortable with that. How does a neighbor know what their middle name or initial is (if thats the case)? Many witnesses are coached beforehand anyway. I have run into title co's and lenders who wouldnt accept credible witnesses. In Calif, we cannot use corroborating documentation, like marriage certs, social security cards etc- they are not acceptable forms of ID. I am glad we have new laws in recent years which are black and white,eliminate the gray areas and leave no wiggle room. Recently, I have grown so tired of these ID problems that I just let them sign the way the docs were printed and did my certificates in the name that was on the ID. Thats all I could do. Noone available by phone. It was either that or walk away which I am going to do in the future. (Watch out for 'JR's and SR's on docs but not on ID). Don't let loan agents try and bully you into thinking alls well because they have a Sig Name Affid or Sig AKA Statement in the package. THEY all have been school incorrectly on this one because they all try it. Its nice for the lender but means zip as far as protecting the notary. Esp with our perjury statement in our acknowledgments- the person who you swear appears before us is the name thats on the ID. We don't get to pick out a name thats on the AKA Statement. I also refuse to speak to loan agents at a signing so as to eliminate any possibility of being accused of colluding with them. If borrowers speak to someone from the signing table, I note their name and what the problem was in my journal. Had a title person recently tell me that expired ID is ok as long as its not more than 5 years expired! Wow! Another one got indignant with me because I wouldnt notarize because a middle initial was different. While I realize that docs are drawn by title according to the way it is on the preliminary title report. It got recorded wrong from the jump because some notary goofed or didnt know better. Thats why it's still important for the loan agents to get that ID copy up front and deal with it. Many times borrowers whine, "GEE, the other notaries over the years didnt have a problem ". Sometimes theres been a name change or a marriage but not always. I also love attorneys who do trusts and notarize the trust in a name thats neither matches the ID or name that their property is titled in. Another frequent screw up I deal with a lot. I use a Document Signers Agreement/Hold Harmless in all my signings. At least in acknowledges the borrowers understanding of my intentions, scope and my role. Sorry if I seem kind of hard nosed but I am. It is all about protecting ourselves because noone else will.
Dannotary	Posted - 01/12/2011 : 10:11:42 PM yes i agree with Linda. Loan people need to get those ID copies up front before docs are drawn so that someone can figure out how to handle discrepancies and not drop it on the notary at the last minute.
LindaH	Posted - 01/11/2011 : 05:41:36 AM quote: Originally posted by jbelmont I wish the folks drafting these documents would ask the borrower what name is on their ID BEFORE drafting the documents. You are lucky that in FL you can still rely on personal knowledge. In CA, that went out the door a few years ago. But, maybe its for the best. In CA, nobody talks to each other in any case, so if we claim to know the other person, we're probably lying! In general notary work that would certainly help. In the case of loan documents and/or real estate transactions, copies of ID ARE obtained at the outset of the application process - at least every RESPA signing I've done required me to get a copy of photo ID; The issue in these instances is that the name on ID has no bearing on how documents are drafted - documents are drawn based on how the the borrowers/homeowners took title - IMO it's up to THEM to be sure they're consistent with how they take title to any asset they obtain and to keep their ID updated to reflect that. In a perfect world, right? Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
jbelmont	Posted - 01/10/2011 : 11:52:27 PM I wish the folks drafting these documents would ask the borrower what name is on their ID BEFORE drafting the documents. You are lucky that in FL you can still rely on personal knowledge. In CA, that went out the door a few years ago. But, maybe its for the best. In CA, nobody talks to each other in any case, so if we claim to know the other person, we're probably lying!
LindaH	Posted - 01/10/2011 : 05:29:00 AM Florida Statutes Section 117.05(5) states, in part: "A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document unless he or she personally knows, or has satisfactory evidence, that the person whose signature is to be notarized is the individual who is described in and who is executing the instrument...." �Satisfactory evidence� means the absence of any information, evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the person making the acknowledgment is not the person he or she claims to be, and any one of the following: a. One Credible Witness (known to the notary AND the signer) b. Two Credible Witnesses (definition/procedure follows) c. One of the following forms of identification (all acceptable forms of paper identification follow). IMO a CW is not usable in the instance of a name variation simply because of the facts the CW is required to swear to - that the signer does not have an acceptable form of ID and it is difficult if not impossible for the signer to OBTAIN adequate ID -in the case of name variation, they HAVE ID, just not ID that matches - and failure to obtain the proper ID is not the equivalent of it being "difficult if not impossible"... Like Renee, I have never used CW's; and although FL does allow "personally known" I prefer not to use it and request photo ID from all signers. I'd also like to add that the AKA Statement is NOT an acceptable form of identification. One underlying common thread I've seen where states take the time to define "adequate identification" or "Satisfactory Evidence" is the phrase "government-issued" - the ID provided must be government issued, and the AKA statement is not. Therefore, IMO, this is NEVER an acceptable way to identify a signer. Linda www.notarydepot.com/notary/lindah http://www.notary.net/websites/LindaHubbell
Renee	Posted - 01/10/2011 : 03:19:47 AM Our Michigan Notary Public Act requires that we identify the person "based" upon current gov't issued ID. That word "based" is intentionally used (and many other states use the same language). It means I can use their gov't issued ID as a foundation to build satisfactory evidence of their identity - adding additional evidence as I might need. For example: Mary is the signer, her D/L says "Mary Doe" and she is signing as "Mary Smith". Assuming I have no reason for suspicion of fraud, if Mary can present me with evidence showing me she IS "Mary Smith" (marriage cert, divorce decree, name change, SS card, etc, etc) to the point that I believe the evidence is satisfactory - I can and will notarize her as "Mary Smith". MI requires CW's to be mutally known to both the notary & the signer - consequently, I've never used a CW. Another example: Joe Alexander Common is the signer, his D/L says "Joe Common". Assuming no suspicion of fraud, if Joe can present me with satisfactory evidence that "Alexander" is part of his identity - regardless of it not being evidenced on his D/L - I can and will notarize him as "Joe Alexander Common". From MI Dept of State's Legal/Regulatory Svcs: "...Pertinent definitions of "basis" include "the principal component of something" and "something on which something else is established or based"....If the license, ID card or record does not by itself conclusively establish a person's identity, it nevertheless can be used as the principal component needed to obtain satisfactory evidence that the person is the person whose signature is to be notarized..." MI requires that CW's be mutually known to both the signer and the notary - consequently, I've never used a CW.