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[quote][i]Originally posted by Fuzzy1955[/i]
[br]I am posting the content of an email I recently sent to one of the title companies.

BEGINNING OF EMAIL***

Good morning!  Based upon my research, I believe I am unable to assist you with this notarization.  This email should be sent to your legal counsel so they may properly inform your client that this notarization is not permitted under Florida law and regulations.  The State of Florida does not have any provisions in the notarization statute, that I am aware of, that allows me to accept anything but a valid ID of certain types in order to determine the person making the notarization is who they say they are.  I have attached the Governor's Notary Handbook section dealing with Identification procedures (See Governor's Ref Manual, pages 32 & 33).

Additionally, The Florida Secretary of State maintains a Q&A web page for Notaries with the following related matter on it.
"What should I do if a person produces identification with a name different from the name being signed?"
"This problem may occur in different situations. In some situations, individuals may have simply neglected to update their identification cards after a name change. You should direct them to the local Division of Motor Vehicles office to make the necessary changes.

In some instances, individuals may need to sign a document with their former name after making the necessary updates to their identification cards. A classic situation arises when a woman changes her name after marriage and has to sign a document, such as a warranty deed, in her former name. You may notarize her signature if she signs both names, but you may want to indicate that fact in your notarial certificate.
For an acknowledgment, you could state, "The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of ________, 19__, by Mary Smith, who represented to me that she was formerly known as Mary Jones, and who provided a Florida driver license, No. 123 45 678 890 in the name of Mary Smith as identification."  Emphasis has been added.

You may also want to include information such as the date of birth, expiration date, or physical description.
You may always provide additional information in your certificate, especially if it helps to clarify the circumstances. You may also want to include information about supporting documentation concerning the name change or additional identification cards, if available, in your journal."

In reviewing the current mortgage notarization for Mr. "C", I believe it to be flawed as his wife has indicated to me (in a first meeting) she never has had a driver's license in the name of "C".  Based upon the requirements laid out in the Governor's hand book, there are no provisions to create an approved identity using other sources of information.  Section (3) clearly states, "One of the following forms of identification:" need to be used to prove a person's identity.  It does not say that you can rely on an affidavit signed by the party who is being notarized.

Since there is a provision to use Credible Witnesses, a prudent person should only conclude that this is the State's sanctioned method when there is no valid ID (but with the limitations set out in the Governor's Notary Handbook).  The reason the State requires the use of the prescribed list of approved ID's is to eliminate the Notary from making such determinations.

Two Credible witnesses would not make sense either as most people who know the wife will most likely know her as "A" and not "C" AND this is really reserved for extreme cases.  Please review Section (2)d which states, "...the party does not possess any of the identification documents in Subparagraph 3."  She clearly does have a valid Driver's License, just in the wrong name.

The only way I will notarize this document, given these circumstances, is with AKA, NKA or FKA language clearly spelled out in the document.

END OF EMAIL***

I was being asked to have a modification resigned (they were paying me again as I had spoken the lender in the prior meeting and received their approval for the way it was notarized).  The lender had come back and decided the Mod had to be signed exactly the way the original mortgage was signed.  It is my opinion that the last two mortgages signed and recorded were flawed.  Bear in mind Ms "A" had openly told me she never took her husband's surname in marriage and could not produce any ID with that surname.

So how did two notaries before me notarize the mortgages stating that they had viewed a Driver's License that properly identified the wife in the name of "C"?

To the Blog readers, what are your thoughts?  Would you have handled this differently?

Best Regards,

John Axt
321-652-6101 Text or Call
jaxt315@cfl.rr.com

Fuzzy1955
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T O P I C R E V I E W
Fuzzy1955	Posted - 02/14/2013 : 07:37:46 AM I am posting the content of an email I recently sent to one of the title companies. BEGINNING OF EMAIL* Good morning! Based upon my research, I believe I am unable to assist you with this notarization. This email should be sent to your legal counsel so they may properly inform your client that this notarization is not permitted under Florida law and regulations. The State of Florida does not have any provisions in the notarization statute, that I am aware of, that allows me to accept anything but a valid ID of certain types in order to determine the person making the notarization is who they say they are. I have attached the Governor's Notary Handbook section dealing with Identification procedures (See Governor's Ref Manual, pages 32 & 33). Additionally, The Florida Secretary of State maintains a Q&A web page for Notaries with the following related matter on it. "What should I do if a person produces identification with a name different from the name being signed?" "This problem may occur in different situations. In some situations, individuals may have simply neglected to update their identification cards after a name change. You should direct them to the local Division of Motor Vehicles office to make the necessary changes. In some instances, individuals may need to sign a document with their former name after making the necessary updates to their identification cards. A classic situation arises when a woman changes her name after marriage and has to sign a document, such as a warranty deed, in her former name. You may notarize her signature if she signs both names, but you may want to indicate that fact in your notarial certificate. For an acknowledgment, you could state, "The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of ________, 19__, by Mary Smith, who represented to me that she was formerly known as Mary Jones, and who provided a Florida driver license, No. 123 45 678 890 in the name of Mary Smith as identification." Emphasis has been added. You may also want to include information such as the date of birth, expiration date, or physical description. You may always provide additional information in your certificate, especially if it helps to clarify the circumstances. You may also want to include information about supporting documentation concerning the name change or additional identification cards, if available, in your journal." In reviewing the current mortgage notarization for Mr. "C", I believe it to be flawed as his wife has indicated to me (in a first meeting) she never has had a driver's license in the name of "C". Based upon the requirements laid out in the Governor's hand book, there are no provisions to create an approved identity using other sources of information. Section (3) clearly states, "One of the following forms of identification:" need to be used to prove a person's identity. It does not say that you can rely on an affidavit signed by the party who is being notarized. Since there is a provision to use Credible Witnesses, a prudent person should only conclude that this is the State's sanctioned method when there is no valid ID (but with the limitations set out in the Governor's Notary Handbook). The reason the State requires the use of the prescribed list of approved ID's is to eliminate the Notary from making such determinations. Two Credible witnesses would not make sense either as most people who know the wife will most likely know her as "A" and not "C" AND this is really reserved for extreme cases. Please review Section (2)d which states, "...the party does not possess any of the identification documents in Subparagraph 3." She clearly does have a valid Driver's License, just in the wrong name. The only way I will notarize this document, given these circumstances, is with AKA, NKA or FKA language clearly spelled out in the document. END OF EMAIL* I was being asked to have a modification resigned (they were paying me again as I had spoken the lender in the prior meeting and received their approval for the way it was notarized). The lender had come back and decided the Mod had to be signed exactly the way the original mortgage was signed. It is my opinion that the last two mortgages signed and recorded were flawed. Bear in mind Ms "A" had openly told me she never took her husband's surname in marriage and could not produce any ID with that surname. So how did two notaries before me notarize the mortgages stating that they had viewed a Driver's License that properly identified the wife in the name of "C"? To the Blog readers, what are your thoughts? Would you have handled this differently? Best Regards, John Axt 321-652-6101 Text or Call jaxt315@cfl.rr.com Fuzzy1955
3 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
LindaH	Posted - 02/14/2013 : 3:05:56 PM quote: Originally posted by middleVT quote: Originally posted by LindaH Are you saying they changed her name on the mortgage to "C" (without benefit of a QC Deed?) when it was still "A" and her ID was "A"? And they wanted her to sign "C"? If the above is correct, I don't see how you could do it. And CW's would only come into play if she had NO valid ID - the fact that she had current valid ID prohibits the use of CWs. Someone/some people are being (a) jerk(s) with respect to credible witnesses. I don't know if it the Florida Legislature, the executive branch people in Florida who issue notary rules and their manual, or if Linda's interpretation is off base. But it is just ridiculous to take the position that if a person owns property, and then changes his or her name, then the person must record an appropriate document (whether quit claim deed or other document recognized in Florida) before the ID in the old name expires. The only other recourse is to become personally known to a notary? That's absurd. middleVT Pardon me. The CW criteria here is that the witnesses must swear that it is "difficult if not impossible" for the signer to obtain ID - if that signer is standing there WITH current, valid ID, the CW's do not apply. The woman in question admits her name is A - has never been C - she has ID for A - she has current valid ID - no CW can be used. "it is just ridiculous to take the position that if a person owns property, and then changes his or her name, then the person must record an appropriate document (whether quit claim deed or other document recognized in Florida) before the ID in the old name expires" - Who said that??!! And no, that's NOT the only other recourse - there's the "personally appeared ABC who represented to me that she took title as ABD and provided <form of id> in the name of ABC as identification". It's not MY false interpretation. Linda http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com
middleVT	Posted - 02/14/2013 : 2:36:05 PM quote: Originally posted by LindaH Are you saying they changed her name on the mortgage to "C" (without benefit of a QC Deed?) when it was still "A" and her ID was "A"? And they wanted her to sign "C"? If the above is correct, I don't see how you could do it. And CW's would only come into play if she had NO valid ID - the fact that she had current valid ID prohibits the use of CWs. Someone/some people are being (a) jerk(s) with respect to credible witnesses. I don't know if it the Florida Legislature, the executive branch people in Florida who issue notary rules and their manual, or if Linda's interpretation is off base. But it is just ridiculous to take the position that if a person owns property, and then changes his or her name, then the person must record an appropriate document (whether quit claim deed or other document recognized in Florida) before the ID in the old name expires. The only other recourse is to become personally known to a notary? That's absurd. middleVT
LindaH	Posted - 02/14/2013 : 11:57:58 AM Are you saying they changed her name on the mortgage to "C" (without benefit of a QC Deed?) when it was still "A" and her ID was "A"? And they wanted her to sign "C"? If the above is correct, I don't see how you could do it. And CW's would only come into play if she had NO valid ID - the fact that she had current valid ID prohibits the use of CWs. Linda http://www.columbiacountynotary.webs.com